All the gear and no-eye-dear

[lojo]

If your not a pro, but do weekend functions for a reasonable fee, along with the odd pub, then here is a formula to show you want you should spend on gear based on guidelines found on the gov.org site.

A = Your age

B = Average size of functions and pub audience over a year

A x B = the amount your collection of usable gear is allowed to cost

[timmo]

I need hardly anything i own. I usually just see something i want, and just get what i like within reason. The only way i justify it, is I am on this Earth once, so i may as well enjoy it as much as i can.

[RockfordStone]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1442333003' post='2866133']
So you don't justify your purchases (to yourself) before you buy? That seems a bit strange.
[/quote]
why should you need to justify something to yourself? if you wan't it you buy it, unless you can't afford it then you don't?
or am i thinking too simply?

Edited September 15, 2015 by RockfordStone

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='Rich' timestamp='1442333853' post='2866146']
If I purchase something, it's because there's a particular need that it's filling. Is that what you mean by justify? Surely if I need an acoustic guitar, and there a couple one of which is £500 and the other £2000, and I try them and on balance[i] I prefer [/i]the £2k one, and it's fulfilling that need, then it's 'justified', right?
[/quote]

I think my views on this are affected both by having played some very nice acoustics (meaning that I'm familiar with the differences) and by knowing a couple of UK luthiers who build them. The ones I've met don't consider themselves to be dealing in luxury items, they'd rather see their instruments played by working musicians than displayed as a status symbol.
I would consider that regardless of the numbers involved, it's quite reasonable for an active musician to obtain an instrument of good quality made by people earning a living wage if it's within their means to do so.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1442334619' post='2866156']
why should you need to justify something to yourself? if you wan't it you buy it, unless you can't afford it then you don't?
or am i thinking too simply?
[/quote]

Everyone justifies the purchase of something before they buy it, unless they have some kind of habitual purchasing habit.

[lojo]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1442334790' post='2866161']
Everyone justifies the purchase of something before they buy it, unless they have some kind of habitual purchasing habit.
[/quote]

Even if its an out of control habit, and a completely mad purchase, like a potless parent spending money a on a jolly or holiday, their mind must still go through the process of justification.

Edited September 15, 2015 by lojo

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1442335050' post='2866163']
Even if its an out of control habit, and a completely mad purchase, like a potless parent spending money a on a jolly or holiday, their mind must still go through the process of justification.
[/quote]

It probably does, although also probably quite a faulty process.

[lojo]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1442335131' post='2866164']
It probably does, although also probably quite a faulty process.
[/quote]

Of course, but don't think anyone does anything good or bad without first justifying it to themselves

[jonsmith]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1442333156' post='2866136']


Different things require different gear. Recording is about the best possible sound, and the best possible version of you playing. People can and will pick your parts out of the mix and listen to them intensely. The same problem isn't faced in a local pub cover band.
[/quote]

Why not?

[JTUK]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1442331304' post='2866100']
£2K for a decent acoustic is probably quite reasonable. If it's handmade there'll be an awful lot of time and skill gone into it.
[/quote]

I'd say the same about a bass, tbh... In fact I think £2k would be the cheaper end, depending on spec and wood... but it would probably largely be hand made.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1442331304' post='2866100']
£2K for a decent acoustic is probably quite reasonable. If it's handmade there'll be an awful lot of time and skill gone into it.
[/quote]

We tend to forget that guitars and bases are very cheap compared to brass and classical instruments, people who I know who have played sax for example say they wouldn't touch anything under about 1.5k

Edited September 15, 2015 by bassman7755

[Dandelion]

My Ibby Atk sounds much nicer to my ear than my Status did.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='jonsmith' timestamp='1442339658' post='2866229']
Why not?
[/quote]

You mean why don't the audience at the Washboard & Fiddle give specific instruments as much scrutiny as somebody who buys and album and devotes time to listen to it? Because they're different audiences. They want different things.

The people in the local pub aren't interested in how much a bass costs, or what kind of music it's tone suits. They want to hear the classics that every band plays there every weekend, so they can stumble around, singing the wrong lyrics completely out of tune, and have a blast doing it.

[jonsmith]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1442342154' post='2866256']


You mean why don't the audience at the Washboard & Fiddle give specific instruments as much scrutiny as somebody who buys and album and devotes time to listen to it? Because they're different audiences. They want different things.

The people in the local pub aren't interested in how much a bass costs, or what kind of music it's tone suits. They want to hear the classics that every band plays there every weekend, so they can stumble around, singing the wrong lyrics completely out of tune, and have a blast doing it.
[/quote]

I don't think most of the record buying public are that interested in what specific instruments are played on a recording or how much they cost either. Most will know when it sounds good though & although many pub audiences will put up with poor sound because it's what they are often confronted with, is there something wrong with trying to give them something better if you can?

Edit to add:

Not everyone in my pub audiences wants to stumble around singing the wrong lyrics out of tune to "the classics" - some of them are quite discerning. One of my bands only plays one cover and it sure isn't one of the "classics".

Edited September 15, 2015 by jonsmith

[Mykesbass]

Why has this thread got such a silly title? Surely if it is a play on words it should read "no eyed deer"? (Waiting for PVA to dry, so no, I don't have anything better to do)!

[TrevorR]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1442342154' post='2866256']


You mean why don't the audience at the Washboard & Fiddle give specific instruments as much scrutiny as somebody who buys and album and devotes time to listen to it? Because they're different audiences. They want different things.

The people in the local pub aren't interested in how much a bass costs, or what kind of music it's tone suits. They want to hear the classics that every band plays there every weekend, so they can stumble around, singing the wrong lyrics completely out of tune, and have a blast doing it.
[/quote]

Interesting that we are back here again... "Why play a nice instrument when the audience don't care/aren't equipped to appreciate that it's a nice instrument?" Numerous posters has stated clearly that in their opinion this question is based on an incorrect postulate, i.e. That instrument choice is in any way related to what a particular audience might think of it.

I really really doubt that anyone really chooses an instrument to buy or to play at a gig on that basis. As others have said, 99% of any audience are likely to know the difference between a Dingwall bass and a Shine bass, or indeed care. What the will want is a good gig. Pure and simple, even though they are unlikely to be able to quantify what makes up a good gig.

We choose instruments to fit our own unique set of criteria - economic, ergonomic, aesthetic, pragmatic , prejudiced (e.g. I just don't like the look of Laklands or Warwicks and wouldn't play one no mTter what however "good" or VFM they are) and so on. So, whether I play at the Whippet & Bludgeon, a corporate function, or the Albert
Hall I take my two Wals because that's what works for me irrespective of venue, they are my basses, they are what I play and that is it. Others choose differently and that is fine because that is what works for them. Any consideration of who the audience would be doesn't begin to factor in that choice. Wherever I am playing! Whatever the make up of the audience, I want to play to the best of my meagre abilities and those are the basses I feel most comfy on and which help me do that.

[TrevorR]

[quote name='jonsmith' timestamp='1442339658' post='2866229']


Why not?
[/quote]
[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1442333156' post='2866136']

Different things require different gear. Recording is about the best possible sound, and the best possible version of you playing. People can and will pick your parts out of the mix and listen to them intensely. The same problem isn't faced in a local pub cover band.
[/quote]

I'd be willing to bet that Jon's "Why not?" was, more precisely, "Why wouldn't you want the audience at a local pub gig to have the best possible version of you playing live to them as well?" It's a sentiment which also rings true to me.

[steve-soar]

Milty, I hear a woman's voice...it's your mum, calling you in.

Now go back inside and be and be a good lad.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='steve-soar' timestamp='1442346646' post='2866323']
Milty, I hear a woman's voice...it's your mum, calling you in.

Now go back inside and be and be a good lad.
[/quote]

It's actually your mum calling me, but thanks for reminding me.

[Big_Stu]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3khTntOxX-k[/media]

[gelfin]

Why is that an instrument must be the best for recording but not for a local pub gig?

At a pub gig you can hear the real instrument, whatever it is in terms of "quality". A good band, with a good mix can sound awesome and you can have a connection with the music that is unlikely or rare when listening to recordings.

Listening to recorded music also depends a great deal on the media format and how good the music playing system is.
How many of us could identify between various, differing costs and quality of a bass on a compressed digital file. How many of us have a Hi Fi system capable of reproducing the sound of the recorded bass, (or other instruments).

Any bass can sound good or bad in any live situation, depending on the player and amp / PA settings but it will always sound crap after being compressed and played on a cheap low fi system or PC speakers.

Edited September 15, 2015 by gelfin

[RockfordStone]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1442334790' post='2866161']
Everyone justifies the purchase of something before they buy it, unless they have some kind of habitual purchasing habit.
[/quote]
i don't mean to be rude milty, but every time someone says something you have a contradictary response for it, its akin to a child saying "but why?" to everything his parents say.

the simple truth is we are human, and we have human nature and will. we play what we want, regardless of where we play it. we don't need to justify it to ourselves. if we want it and can afford it then there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't play an expensive instrument down the dog and duck, regardless of whether the crowd notices or not.

how long is this thread going to keep going in circles?

[martin8708]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1441291151' post='2857633']


I think it's entirely unjustifiable today to spend £2,000 on an acoustic guitar.
[/quote]

I'm sure Amalia Ramirez , Paulino Bernabe or even your very own George Lowden won't loose too much sleep over the above comment .

Edited September 17, 2015 by martin8708

[jonsmith]

[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1442345796' post='2866311']



I'd be willing to bet that Jon's "Why not?" was, more precisely, "Why wouldn't you want the audience at a local pub gig to have the best possible version of you playing live to them as well?" It's a sentiment which also rings true to me.
[/quote]

Exactly. I want to present myself in the best way possible, every time, wherever it is and however I choose to do it.

It seems the only answer that will be accepted is that I'm some sort of "gear poser", but I can categorically state that this is not what's driving my choice. How would this work if - as has been suggested - no one in the pub knows or cares what I'm playing?

[TimR]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1442342903' post='2866270']
Why has this thread got such a silly title? Surely if it is a play on words it should read "no eyed deer"? (Waiting for PVA to dry, so no, I don't have anything better to do)!
[/quote]

I think that was covered on page 9...