All the gear and no-eye-dear

[jonsmith]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1441965295' post='2863276']
I think the thread got derailed very early on with lots of righteous indignation. This is the bit that quite interests me in the original post and hasn't really been answered.

"So what compels us to still talk about what instruments and backline we need to play the crow & fiddle on a gloomy Saturday evening?"
[/quote]

I think collectively we kind of did answer that in a convoluted, drawn out and ocassionally touchy way. Most of us care about our performance. Although it seems that some of us don't care about our sound - a concept I'm still trying to get to grips with - some of us do and want to get the best results with what is available to us. Better gear doesn't neccessarily mean more expensive gear either, but the right gear for us as individuals, given playing styles, budgets etc. Some of us think the audience doesn't notice, some of us think they do (although maybe not always knowing exactly why) & some of us think we play better with better gear, for both physical and psychological reasons. Some of us like to be prepared for possible problems, some of us don't think it matters for pub gigs. Different viewpoints create discussion.

[ezbass]

This[quote name='jonsmith' timestamp='1441990184' post='2863637']
Better gear doesn't neccessarily mean more expensive gear either, [b]but the right gear for us as individuals[/b], given playing styles,
[/quote]

[HazBeen]

Now on page 10. How about a cuppa?

[timmo]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1441987338' post='2863594']
That's a strange thing to say. It's kind of self evident. Better gear is better.

Until you define what 'better' is, it's a silly statement.
[/quote]Not really strange at all. You should be able to define better yourself. Better doesn`t mean anything but better than the item you are comparing., and that is up too the individual. My interpretation of what he said, was a $60 bass won`t be as good as a $600 bass. Unless you got the $60 bass for an absolute steal. Price in that sort of bracket usually indicates better quality. When you get to the $1000 plus basses, it might be be harder to define. Then it becomes better if you prefer the neck, pickups etc

[TimR]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1441997290' post='2863731']
Not really strange at all. You should be able to define better yourself. Better doesn`t mean anything but better than the item you are comparing., and that is up too the individual.

...
[/quote]

Which is why we can discuss it forever. Because what one person defines as 'better' is different to what another person defines as 'better'.

Because we all have different tastes and requirements. (As has been said in the last few posts)

So the discussion is circular...

[timmo]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1441998269' post='2863744']
Which is why we can discuss it forever. Because what one person defines as 'better' is different to what another person defines as 'better'.

Because we all have different tastes and requirements. (As has been said in the last few posts)

So the discussion is circular...
[/quote]So why do you keep questioning everyones opinion when they are defining what they think, in their opinion, their Fender is better than a Squire? The bloke says, his Dual Rectifier is better than his Gorilla. Is he wrong? He thinks that a cheap Peavey is better for the road as he doesn`t care about it so much. Is he wrong? So he is defining what he thinks is better. He has defined what is better to him , so why is it a silly statement when he has defined it ?

[TimR]

Because he hasn't qualified or quantified it.

Simply saying x is better than y without saying why isn't very objective.

Using the word better is incorrect, when really it's I prefer or I like.

[timmo]

He has quanified it, as he has used it. He has told you that the Double Rectifier is better, so he has qualified it. He doesn`t have to explain it too you why it is better, as that is not the purpose of the video. As he is experienced, I am sure he knows what he is talking about. Seems like you just want to argue for no real purpose to me.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='planer' timestamp='1441619082' post='2860203']
Classic Milty argument thread.

Post a predictably contentious question, then argue that pretty much everyone else is wrong.

Well done mate, you've got another notch on your bedpost.
[/quote]

You're welcome

It seems to be a natural talent. Perhaps I'll flex my muscles more in the future. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

[blue]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1441287545' post='2857574']
I'm quite sure it does not - but it certainly makes a difference to me. Who is more important??

If you like to have nice things and you can afford them, then capitalism dictates that nothing stand in the way of you buying them, regardless of any possible negative effects on our environment. But that's for another thread - one which I'm not going to start.
[/quote]

Exactly, we do it for a variety of reasons. Hell, I don't think my band members know what gear I use or how much I invested in it.

I play in a regional 70s style rock band, we play a little over 70 shows a year. Do I need 9 vintage bass guitars, a few stacked rigs, full blown pedal board? Probably not, does anyone notice it, no. I have it because it's what I want. When I was a kid playing ,I always had cheap gear or borrowed stuff. So as an adult I went out and purchased every bass I could only dream about as a kid.

I'm fine with my story. And I'm fine with the video too.It was funny and made all the sense in the world.

Blue

Edited September 11, 2015 by blue

[bjelkeman]

That is great Blue, just sayin.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='gelfin' timestamp='1441658190' post='2860719']
[b] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/user/25488-miltyg565/"]MiltyG565[/url][/b]


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[color=#5A5A5A][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][color=#A4A4A4]Posted 02 September 2015 - 09:28 PM[/color][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#5A5A5A][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][color=#282828][size=4]I'm going sailing for a few days next week . [/size][/color][/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]

I don't understand what your point is, but I'd sincerely hope that you, as a mod, haven't tried to make this thread personal, like some other contributors have.

Anyway, I'm back from my trip with the Ellen MacArthur Cancer Trust now, so I can read through all contributions with interest (which is what I'm currently doing).

[TimR]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1442002536' post='2863802']
He has quanified it, as he has used it. He has told you that the Double Rectifier is better, so he has qualified it. He doesn`t have to explain it too you why it is better, as that is not the purpose of the video. As he is experienced, I am sure he knows what he is talking about. Seems like you jeust want to argue for no real purpose to me.
[/quote]

Well no. I'm not arguing with anyone.

He actually qualifies and quantifies why the Peavy gear is better for the other band. It's cheap and inexpensive doesn't sound as good as the high end gear BUT it's easily replaced when it breaks or gets stolen.

So that's WHY it's better for them.

There are lots of posters in this thread and on the forum who'll discuss what's better but never say why it's better in a quantifiable way. Saying omething sounds better is just opinion. Saying something is easily replaced or more robust is a quantifiable fact.

That's pretty much why the discussions never end. Something cannot be better just because it sounds different.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442005467' post='2863832']
Well no. I'm not arguing with anyone.

He actually qualifies and quantifies why the Peavy gear is better for the other band. It's cheap and inexpensive doesn't sound as good as the high end gear BUT it's easily replaced when it breaks or gets stolen.

So that's WHY it's better for them.

There are lots of posters in this thread and on the forum who'll discuss what's better but never say why it's better in a quantifiable way. Saying omething sounds better is just opinion. Saying something is easily replaced or more robust is a quantifiable fact.

That's pretty much why the discussions never end. Something cannot be better just because it sounds different.
[/quote]

Great points!

[timmo]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1441540210' post='2859604']

As I wrote earlier, if you feel you have to defend yourself then maybe you should look at really why you bought the bass. So far only one person has admitted to being an out and out poser.
[/quote] Basically, the only reason that seems acceptable to you, if someone just says they are a poseur? While same may, that is not the reason why people buy Fender over Squire. Lots if reasons have been given, even if it doesn`t meet your criteria. Why should people need to look at the reason they buy the bass? If it makes them happy to have that bass, why do they need to look at themselves to justify it in a quantifiable way?

[TimR]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1442006599' post='2863840']
Basically, the only reason that seems acceptable to you, if someone just says they are a poseur? While same may, that is not the reason why people buy Fender over Squire. Lots if reasons have been given, even if it doesn`t meet your criteria. Why should people need to look at the reason they buy the bass? If it makes them happy to have that bass, why do they need to look at themselves to justify it in a quantifiable way?
[/quote]

They don't.

Until they use the wording better.

If someone says the Fender is better than the Squire then tell me why they're better and why I should buy one and not the other.

Where have I said that's the only acceptable answer? I've said it's as good an answer as any of the others and it's an honest answer.

Do I think the Ibanez is a better bass than all the others I've tried? No. The neck is thinner and I prefer the sound. It's easier on my wallet, ears and fingers, and mine is a nice natural finish. Of those only two are quantifiable. The fact I like the sound and think the wood looks good are just a taste thing.

Edited September 11, 2015 by TimR

[timmo]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442007493' post='2863846']
They don't.

Until they use the wording better.

If someone says the Fender is better than the Squire then tell me why they're better and why I should buy one and not the other.

Where have I said that's the only acceptable answer? I've said it's as good an answer as any of the others and it's an honest answer.

Do I think the Ibanez is a better bass than all the others I've tried? No. The neck is thinner and I prefer the sound. It's easier on my wallet, ears and fingers, and mine is a nice natural finish. Of those only two are quantifiable. The fact I like the sound and think the wood looks good are just a taste thing.
[/quote] I have no idea what your Ibanez is, but you say it isn`t the best you have tried, but it fits your budget. That is fine. The neck is thinner against what? Then you say you prefer the sound. So it isn`t the best bass you have tried, but in your opinion you prefer the sound. You prefer the sound to what? What bass have you tried that is better than the Ibanez, but doesn`t have the sound you prefer?The neck is thinner against which basses you have tried? Surely the Ibanez must be the best you have tried as it has the neck you like and the sound you prefer? Why are some of the basses you have tried, better than the Ibanez? You haven`t really quantified anything, but gave the same sort of answers as other people who haven`t apparently answered in previous posts.

Edited September 11, 2015 by timmo

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442007493' post='2863846']
They don't.

Until they use the wording better.

If someone says the Fender is better than the Squire then tell me why they're better and why I should buy one and not the other.

Where have I said that's the only acceptable answer? I've said it's as good an answer as any of the others and it's an honest answer.

Do I think the Ibanez is a better bass than all the others I've tried? No. The neck is thinner and I prefer the sound. It's easier on my wallet, ears and fingers, and mine is a nice natural finish. Of those only two are quantifiable. The fact I like the sound and think the wood looks good are just a taste thing.
[/quote]

sales is all about quantifiable difference, and having sold many thousands of pounds of cost-effective gear, I can tell you that quantifiable difference is exactly what people in that market are looking for when they purchase.

[TimR]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1442009512' post='2863864']
I have no idea what your Ibanez is, but you say it isn`t the best you have tried, but it fits your budget. That is fine. The neck is thinner against what? Then you say you prefer the sound. So it isn`t the best bass you have tried, but in your opinion you prefer the sound. You prefer the sound to what? What bass have you tried that is better than the Ibanez, but doesn`t have the sound you prefer?The neck is thinner against which basses you have tried? Surely the Ibanez must be the best you have tried as it has the neck you like and the sound you prefer? Why are some of the basses you have tried, better than the Ibanez? You haven`t really quantified anything, but gave the same sort of answers as other people who haven`t apparently answered in previous posts.
[/quote]

You've completely lost me there.

If you put two basses next to each other and said one has a thinner neck than another one, then you can instantly prove whether it has by measuring them. That's a quantifiable measurement. Everyone will agree. It's physical. A fact. No doubt about it.

If you put two basses next to each other and said one bass is better than the other then that is subjective. Purely an opinion. It's not measurable or quantifiable in any sense of the word.

[mcnach]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1441299278' post='2857753']
Looking purely at the facts, spending £2,000 on a guitar to play 15 £200 gigs throughout the year doesn't make business sense.
[/quote]

but it may make all the sense in pleasure terms... 15 gigs a year at £200 a pop is clearly not a business

[timmo]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442010241' post='2863868']
You've completely lost me there.

If you put two basses next to each other and said one has a thinner neck than another one, then you can instantly prove whether it has by measuring them. That's a quantifiable measurement. Everyone will agree. It's physical. A fact. No doubt about it.

If you put two basses next to each other and said one bass is better than the other then that is subjective. Purely an opinion. It's not measurable or quantifiable in any sense of the word.
[/quote] You have stated that it isn`t the best bass, but it has the best sound you have tried, and the best neck that fits you, but isn`t the best bass you have tried. Makes no sense to me. If it is the best sound and neck you prefer, out of the bass you have tried, then why isn`t it the best bass you have tried. What makes a worse sounding bass in your opinion , better than the Ibanez. I am just asking what basses you have compared to come to your quantifiable conclusion.

[UglyDog]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1441987338' post='2863594']
Until you define what 'better' is, it's a silly statement.
[/quote]
That's easily defined. Expensive basses are always better than cheap ones, unless they're not.
Hope this has cleared it up.

[mcnach]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1441313907' post='2857922']
I find this "I sound great, therefore I play better" attitude quite hard to understand. I consider sounding great to be relative to the people you are playing with, not relative to other basses. When musicians are on the same wavelength with each other, they sound great. It wouldn't matter if you had the most expensive bass in the world or not, a great jam is a great jam.
[/quote]

reread the "I sound great, therefore I play better" as "I love the way this bass feels and sounds, therefore I find it more inspiring to play, so I am more in tune with it and as a result I seem to play better - or I enjoy playing it more"

that's how I understand it, at least.

There was nothing wrong with my OLPs, and I've been known to be a bit of a reverse snob, but when I got my Stingray it just felt right in a way that the OLPs didn't quite match.

[mcnach]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1441491139' post='2859299']
Aside from the cost factor and the law of diminishing returns. I don't disagree, however. Most high-ticket basses are better. There is an interesting phenomenon that simply pricing something higher makes it's disproportionately more valuable, which harks the old question "Is a Fender really worth it?".
[/quote]


Yes, I have to have at least one or two Fenders at home. It keeps my Squiers on their toes, so they try harder. Then I can gig with the Squiers

[mcnach]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1441540210' post='2859604']
Well, I'm with Milty. It's interesting to see what motivates people and what lies behind their choice of instrument.

I never understand why some people see words on a page to have any malice. Non have been written. It's all in your heads guys.

I just thought there were two reasons for choosing a particular bass. Seems I'm wrong so the thread has at least been interesting to me.

Rampant consumerism? Hardly. We don't buy an expensive bass as soon as it's released and bin the old one. The supply chain and exchange of second hand gear is far more complex than that.

As I wrote earlier, if you feel you have to defend yourself then maybe you should look at really why you bought the bass. So far only one person has admitted to being an out and out poser.
[/quote]

my thoughts exactly...