All the gear and no-eye-dear

[mcnach]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1441542931' post='2859635']
Why should they have to justify what bass they buy? You have already said that it was just a clickbait topic.
[/quote]

I don't think anybody is being forced to justify anything. You only owe that to yourself and nobody else.

A couple of questions have been asked. Some find them pointless, some don't and respond. Not everybody has the same views... erm, what's surprising?
What I don't get is the "this thread is pointless" comments (if it's pointless, what are you doing replying to it?) or feeling like you have to justify anything or that you've been attacked. You don't. You haven't.

[mcnach]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1441542023' post='2859625']
All this "I bring two basses in case one breaks" and "I buy superior quality gear because it's more reliable" just seem like mealy-mouthed justifications for what is simply an indulgence, although so many here seem to be unwilling to admit that's what it is. If you want to play at being a big-time rock star, if you do it as an indulgence, if you simply have more fun that way, just bloody well say it instead of getting all upset when I don't believe that you bring two superior quality basses to the pub "in case one breaks".
[/quote]

... ok, now I see why some people get a bit annoyed

that sounds a bit too judgemental, to be honest.

It is an indulgence for many. And nothing wrong about that. Personally, I don't take backup basses to our typical gigs: they're rather loose and I can easily replace a string. However, for "serious" gigs I have taken not only a spare bass but a spare amplifier. Last thing I want is to travel 200 miles to a gig that we get paid well for, and have to say "ooops, my bass doesn't work". It's rare... but I have had an amplifier go "puff" with sparks and smoke on me, and... this is the crucial part... if I have spares, and can transport them, and don't inconvenience anybody... why not bring them along?
I also have spare contact lenses and spectacles in my car.

[mcnach]

[quote name='4-string-thing' timestamp='1441564407' post='2859879']
I find it quite interesting that lots of people think it necessary to take a spare (quality or otherwise) bass to a gig, but very few have said they take a spare amp. I'd be much more worried about an amp breaking than a bass (even one of my cheap, crap ones)
Especially as the advice dished out on here in every "which amp?" thread is always "buy second hand, you'll get much more for your money"

So, many of the people who only use expensive basses because they're more "reliable" quite often advise others to buy second hand amps...
[/quote]


True. I suppose it is because until relatively recently a spare head was both expensive and heavy, and we can always go straight to desk if absolutely necessary: it won't be much fun, but it'll work.

[mcnach]

[quote name='4-string-thing' timestamp='1441566484' post='2859912']
Just saying, in my case I'd rather take a spare amp than a spare bass.... In practice have never bothered with either and have never had a problem (but I guess there is always a first time)

As for taking a spare bass/amp and then leaving it in the car....
[/quote]

worst case scenario... just walk up to the vocalist's microphone and hum your basslines

[mcnach]

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1441614138' post='2860149']
And why should you need to apologise for wanting the best gear ? I'm not going to think , oh, I'm playing the pub tonight, I'll take the cheap gear so I don't look too poseurish, oh, next week we are playing a function, better take the good gear. I take my best gear for every gig and I couldn't give a toss what anyone thinks of my choice. Surely, they are more interested in what kind of a noise you are making anyway!
[/quote]

You take the Sadowsky to the pub... and there'll be someone there who'll think you can't afford a Fender and that's why you play that imitation

[Beer of the Bass]

Here's another angle to the consumerism thing; If you play something like a US Fender (for example) for a few years and the frets get worn down, generally you'd have it re-fretted. With cheaper instruments this is less likely to be your choice, as excepting a few DIYers a sub-£100 bass which needs a re-fret is scrap to most people. Many luthiers will refuse jobs which exceed the value of the instrument. In general, less expensive instruments tend to have shorter working lives even though this is sometimes due to the economics of having them repaired rather than the quality of the instruments. It's not just refrets either, you could find yourself in the same situation with a headstock break on a Gibson-style neck or crack repairs on an acoustic.
So what one person may view as an unjustifiable indulgence, someone else might view as a canny purchase under the old "Buy well, buy once" approach. Which one of those looks more like rampant consumerism is debatable.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Beer of the Bass

[timmo]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442007493' post='2863846']
They don't.

Until they use the wording better.

If someone says the Fender is better than the Squire then tell me why they're better and why I should buy one and not the other.

Where have I said that's the only acceptable answer? I've said it's as good an answer as any of the others and it's an honest answer.


[/quote]
[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1442015418' post='2863896']
I don't think anybody is being forced to justify anything. You only owe that to yourself and nobody else.

A couple of questions have been asked. Some find them pointless, some don't and respond. Not everybody has the same views... erm, what's surprising?
What I don't get is the "this thread is pointless" comments (if it's pointless, what are you doing replying to it?) or feeling like you have to justify anything or that you've been attacked. You don't. You haven't.
[/quote] A couple of questions are being asked to justify why they spend x amount on a bass, when none is really needed. If someone does, then it is because apparently they should use words better. We are a bass forum, not an English degree forum, some people including myself are not that clever with words Answers are not forced on anyone , but as said in the top quote, why should anyone tell you why the Fender is better over the Squire. It isn`t needed. If someone tells me a Squire is better than a Fender, i will accept their word, and try them both if i wanted one, because they couldn`t give a quantifiable reason..Sometimes you can pick up a bass, and it just feels right. There just isn`t a definable thing, it just feels comfortable. It can`t always be quantified, as it may have the same neck profile, and same shape body. Like buying a house. You can walk in, and just doesn`t feel right. The house you generally buy, is because it feels right. Nothing quantifiable. Why does a neck feel faster over another? Is there anything definable about it? I am just wondering how a bass which isn`t the best bass, but it sounds best, and got the neck that is favoured is not the best? Sometimes things can not be answered, in a definable way. That is why it is pointless, but Strongbow on a Saturday night makes them relevant again

Edited September 12, 2015 by timmo

[ubit]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1441987338' post='2863594']


That's a strange thing to say. It's kind of self evident. Better gear is better.

Until you define what 'better' is, it's a silly statement.
[/quote]

If I have to spell it out , he said that the more expensive gear sounded better! The name brands. To me he completely disagreed with the rest of his statement !

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1442044383' post='2863960']
So what one person may view as an unjustifiable indulgence, someone else might view as a canny purchase under the old "Buy well, buy once" approach. Which one of those looks more like rampant consumerism is debatable.
[/quote]

Well, no... All the problems you listed aren't specific or exclusive to cheap instruments. All you've said is that repairing them would exceed the value of the guitar. They haven't broken because they're cheap, so this isn't a "buy well - buy once" situation.

I also don't think I've used the term unjustifiable indulgence. Indulgences are fine, IMO.

[TimR]

Unit, I totally agree with both statements.

I just think if you play something because you like it then it's fine to say it's because you like it. Don't play something because it's the 'best' or 'better'. There's no such thing.

Edited September 12, 2015 by TimR

[JTUK]

Because it is better.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1442053408' post='2864053']
Well, no... All the problems you listed aren't specific or exclusive to cheap instruments. All you've said is that repairing them would exceed the value of the guitar. They haven't broken because they're cheap, so this isn't a "buy well - buy once" situation.

I also don't think I've used the term unjustifiable indulgence. Indulgences are fine, IMO.
[/quote]

I don't think you can break it down to an answer as simple as yes or no, unless you get some particular satisfaction out of being dismissive. What I'm saying is that buying products which rely on the cheaper labour of the far East and are then treated as disposable is a type of consumerism which some people are uncomfortable with. Hard to dispute that, really.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1442054306' post='2864074']
I don't think you can break it down to an answer as simple as yes or no, unless you get some particular satisfaction out of being dismissive. What I'm saying is that buying products which rely on the cheaper labour of the far East and are then treated as disposable is a type of consumerism which some people are uncomfortable with. Hard to dispute that, really.
[/quote]

That isn't what I was disputing though. I wasn't disputing it mainly because I agree. However any guitar valued at more than a couple of hundred of our finest pounds would be out of that bracket of merely a throw-away starter guitar.

But it's not about where the guitar is made. Some very nice instruments are made in China. Disposability is all about price. That's why we now have the carrier bag surcharge, which has saved thousands if not millions of bags from simply going to landfill.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1442055023' post='2864085']
That isn't what I was disputing though. I wasn't disputing it mainly because I agree.
[/quote]

You may have noticed that in my post this morning I did not quote you or any other poster, intending more to see if some general points raised could be further explored. Yet you responded in a way that was (IMO) rather dismissive and seemed to be focussed on whether or not you had used words which I had not quoted you as using. It wasn't meant to be a personal thing about who was right or wrong.
TBH I'm finding your posting style very difficult to engage with on what could otherwise be an interesting discussion.
I should probably log off and play some bass...

Edited September 12, 2015 by Beer of the Bass

[Guest bassman7755]

Another point on the expensive vs cheap argument: to some extent its about probabilities and quality control. pretty much everything that is physically manufactured is done so to a tolerance i.e. there is some amount of variation around the ideal or "perfect" specification.

Often when you buy a premium grade product (of any type) you are to some extent paying for what is [b]not[/b] used (it could be used on a cheaper range product or simply discarded). In the case of something like a US fender vs a Squire I imagine they have many of the same components but I would expect the US ones to have first dibs on the ones that are closest to the ideal spec.

So to some extent when you buy an expensive instrument you are paying for a higher probability that it performs and sounds exactly as the designers intended. The flip side is that given the time and opportunity to try out lots cheaper ones you could stumble on a gem because all those manufacturing variations colluded to produce a great instrument.

Edited September 12, 2015 by bassman7755

[mcnach]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1442046004' post='2863979']
[b]why should anyone tell you why the Fender is better over the Squire[/b]. It isn`t needed. If someone tells me a Squire is better than a Fender, i will accept their word, and try them both if i wanted one, because they couldn`t give a quantifiable reason..
[/quote]

because we like to know what makes people prefer one bass over another, nothing sinister... it's a bass forum and we like to spend idle time here talking crap about gear But it's not about justifying to anybody your choices, it's just... well, exchanging views, really.

I don't need to justify to anybody why I bought three Sue Ryder basses back in the day, but I happily told people why I thought they were attractive -to me, at the time-. One person in particular got quite verbose criticising our choices (several here bought those basses at the same time, when they were going for £50-60). I never felt I owed him an explanation or that I could convince him that those basses worked for me, but it's the nature of the forums: we talk a lot with no consequence whatsoever, and in the process there may be a few interesting points raised. That's why I participate. That's all.

Sometimes someone may ask something I don't really have an answer for, or don't feel like getting into answering. Saying I have no answer or moving on are perfect acceptable responses too.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1442055448' post='2864094']
You may have noticed that in my post this morning I did not quote you or any other poster, intending more to see if some general points raised could be further explored.
[/quote]

I'm not the only person here. I thought you had made a point worth responding to, so I did. Others can decide for themselves whether to give it a response or not.

I gave you my take on the consumerism point that you raised. I do study consumer behaviour as part of my degree, and I spent the best part of 2 years selling musical equipment in the lower end of the market. If I was dismissive, I'm sorry.

[colgraff]

I suppose bass gear is a bit like cars, some people are happy in a 30 year old Volvo and some people lease top spec Jaguars. They both perform the same function and as long as everyone is happy.....

[tauzero]

[quote name='jonsmith' timestamp='1441990184' post='2863637']
Although it seems that some of us don't care about our sound - a concept I'm still trying to get to grips with - some of us do and want to get the best results with what is available to us.
[/quote]

I don't think anyone said they don't care about their sound. My personal feeling is that I do care about my sound but I don't care if that sound isn't the same as the sound on the original record.

[jonsmith]

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1442155264' post='2864725']


I don't think anyone said they don't care about their sound. My personal feeling is that I do care about my sound but I don't care if that sound isn't the same as the sound on the original record.
[/quote]

Reading some of the comments in the thread, some felt that there was no need to strive for good sound in the pub, because the audience wouldn't notice anyway. This seems a little contemptuous to me, but if it's a justification for not taking the gear you believe will deliver the best sound, then to me that reads as not being that fussed about how you sound. If we all do care about our sound, then the original question is answered - we discuss what gear we might use in the pub and take the best equipment we have available because we want to achieve the best sound possible, whatever our budget might be. Of course best might not be most expensive, but there is still a decision being made out of a desire to give the best one can. It was suggested that this wasn't required down the pub.

[DBerriff]

I think the amp and speaker setup is critical. As far as the band is concerned it makes far more difference; they never used to notice what bass I turned up with. You are going to notice it too if the speaker is underspecified and goes into meltdown, taking the amp with it. So in my opinion this is where you do need some serious investment.

[barneyg42]

I always carry spare heads!!

[lojo]

[quote name='DBerriff' timestamp='1442210444' post='2865082']
I think the amp and speaker setup is critical.
[/quote]

This.

My amplification is expensive (if you call mark bass that) but I can play a cheap bass in the pub and it sounds great through it.

I'm also not worried about knocking my headstock on some basses, so some will only go with me to staged gigs.

Edited September 14, 2015 by lojo

[wateroftyne]

I haven't read the whole thread so I'm probably lacking context, but I've had basses fail on me at gigs twice. Once years ago, and most recently a couple of weeks ago.

Both times I didn't have a spare, and both times I looked like an idiot to band and punters.

(The last one was a simple cause - a wire pulled off the jack socket when the nut had worked loose over time. Just one'o'them things.)

[JTUK]

And the problem is...will that gig suffer an 'idiot' failure..??

It it will...then not a real problem...if it wont, you probably wouldn't get asked again.. etc etc