Is it normal for old strings to go out of tune?

[jazzyvee]

I have a bass that I use exclusively for reggae and the round wound strings on it are around a year and a half old. That is an unusually long time for me to keep strings on a bass but I wanted to see if I got a warmer more mellow tone over time for the genre with old strings.

However, last weekend I played a gig with the bass and whilst the strings were in tune in the open position there were a number of places on the bass, more noticeably 7th fret and below, where the notes sounded very slightly off pitch and as a result I found myself bending the strings to pitch during some of the songs. I checked the tuning during the gig and the open strings stayed in tune all the way through the gig. I've recently got some Elixir's so will most likely put them on the bass and check the intonation before the next gig. But I just wondered if it's normal for older strings to lose their pitch along their length.

[chris_b]

Strings wear out and can lose their intonation.

[BobVbass]

depends on the string I suspect - I've a set of Rotos on my P bass that are at least 10 years old no issues at all.

[Happy Jack]

Flats, time to move to the dark side and abandon your foolish round wound notions ...

[Lozz196]

I`ve found that once they get to around a year old, rounds lose their staying in tune-ness.

[Phil Starr]

For the use you describe flats are definitely worth a try.

I've noticed problems tuning old strings by ear, I hear off tones, so just as I get there I start hearing other overtones that aren't in tune with the string I'm tuning to. On the digital tuner I can see this happening, the initial note may be in tune but if you leave it vibrating for a couple of seconds it wanders off tuning and eventually settles down to a frequency slightly off the initial one, In extreme cases I see the tuner deciding there is an entirely different note being played, often the fourth above, even when I am damping the other strings. It's reassuring to see a machine seeing what I am hearing. My theory is that the accumulation of dirt on parts of the string means that the mass of the string varies along it's length, the fundamental will be unaffected but the harmonics will be affected when the dirty and massy part of the string is vibrating most. If I am right then when you fret a dirty string the part nearest the bridge will be heavier because of the dirt from your picking fingers, that would lower the note it sounds and explain the need to bend the strings to raise the tone. I've run no controlled tests though and never read anything about this so this is all just conjecture.

Has anyone else noticed this? It's much more noticeable on old skinny strings.

[Geek99]

No - seen the same. Reasonable opinion in my view

[FuNkShUi]

My strings are old. Havent changed them since i bought the bass in 2011.
It's the sound i try for on any of my basses now.
Never considered flats before this bass, but that's what id replace them with now should i ever need to.
But ive never had tuning issues.

[chris_b]

My flats are about 3 years old.

They are just coming into their prime.

[BigRedX]

Rounds will eventually start to wear away where they come into contact with the frets (unless the frets are very soft in which case they will be the ones wearing away). When this happens they are no longer a constant unit mass along their length and it will be increasingly difficult to keep them in tune at every fret.

I ran into exactly the same problem as the OP when I was favouring a one month or older sound from my strings (these days I like bright new string as I can always loose the zing elsewhere in my signal chain). When I removed the problem set that had been on the bass for about a year the underside of the strings where full of grooves at the points where they had come into contact with the frets. The depth of each groove was very much dependent on how often I played that particular note. It was little wonder that the strings were impossible to play in tune. IIRC it affected the thicker (A, E and B) strings most.

Edited to remove stupid emoticon. Why can't I turn this option off by default!!

Edited September 4, 2015 by BigRedX

[rjs1909]

Yes, this is how I decide when it is time to change strings

[JTUK]

My Rounds are pretty unbearable from about 6 weeks on... if I use good core strings I can get a few good cleans out of them but they do have a
useful end of life, IMO. That is the time to throw them away.

You could try and restring them but I think they are likely shot.

FWIW, I have a theory that some string winders may have downgraded their metal these last few years.and this is more noticeable
on Rounds as the strings are likely to need to be cleaned and restrung a good few times.

I've found that the best strings might be able to cope with this about 5 times and then time for the recycle bin

[discreet]

I use flats for everything now. Not only do they last a long time, with modern flats it's possible to get a very wide range of tones.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1441369727' post='2858340']
My Rounds are pretty unbearable from about 6 weeks on...

[/quote]

Have you tried washing your hands occasionally?

[HowieBass]

There might be a loss of elasticity over that time with a degree of work hardening too - if you can't get them acceptably in tune along the neck it's time to ditch them.

[spectoremg]

What's 'tuning by ear?'
AND this bloody flats GAS ain't gonna go away if you lot keep on about it!

[SICbass]

Frankly I think it serves him right for wondering about out there beyond the fifth fret

[jazzyvee]

[quote name='SICbass' timestamp='1441404745' post='2858749']
Frankly I think it serves him right for wondering about out there beyond the fifth fret
[/quote]

+ 1 :-)

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='jazzyvee' timestamp='1441320409' post='2858002']
I have a bass that I use exclusively for reggae and the round wound strings on it are around a year and a half old. That is an unusually long time for me to keep strings on a bass but I wanted to see if I got a warmer more mellow tone over time for the genre with old strings.

However, last weekend I played a gig with the bass and whilst the strings were in tune in the open position there were a number of places on the bass, more noticeably 7th fret and below, where the notes sounded very slightly off pitch and as a result I found myself bending the strings to pitch during some of the songs. I checked the tuning during the gig and the open strings stayed in tune all the way through the gig. I've recently got some Elixir's so will most likely put them on the bass and check the intonation before the next gig. But I just wondered if it's normal for older strings to lose their pitch along their length.
[/quote]

There are two possible solutions.

1 Get newer rounds but play over the fingerboard, with sponge under the strings at the bridge, and then EQ them appropriately.

2 Flats.

[skej21]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1441363107' post='2858241']
Rounds will eventually start to wear away where they come into contact with the frets (unless the frets are very soft in which case they will be the ones wearing away). When this happens they are no longer a constant unit mass along their length and it will be increasingly difficult to keep them in tune at every fret.

I ran into exactly the same problem as the OP when I was favouring a one month or older sound from my strings (these days I like bright new string as I can always loose the zing elsewhere in my signal chain). When I removed the problem set that had been on the bass for about a year the underside of the strings where full of grooves at the points where they had come into contact with the frets. The depth of each groove was very much dependent on how often I played that particular note. It was little wonder that the strings were impossible to play in tune. IIRC it affected the thicker (A, E and strings most.

Edited to remove stupid emoticon. Why can't I turn this option off by default!!
[/quote]

I was chatting with Dave Doll from Martin and he also mentioned that fret wear on the underside of strings and skin collecting in the coils over a prolonged period of time alters the overall mass of the string and will therefore affect the tension of the string. That then causes issues with intonation, set up etc.

Logical when you think about it but not something that is always obvious!

[jazzyvee]

Yeah, all makes sense but I'm gonna try some new, to me, elixir's and see how they hold up. Perfect opportunity to oil the fingerboard as well.

Thanks for your relevant comments and the humour in the irrelevant ones... :-)

[bubinga5]

put the strings on, and stretch/pull them. it pulls the windings to there optimum capacity.thus pre-empting there natural stretch and going out of tune over time. its a must when putting on new strings for me.

tune up, then pull on a string then check your tuning.

Edited September 5, 2015 by bubinga5

[jazzyvee]

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1441445714' post='2858912']
put the strings on, and stretch/pull them. it pulls the windings to there optimum capacity.thus pre-empting there natural stretch and going out of tune over time. its a must when putting on new strings for me.

tune up, then pull on a string then check your tuning.
[/quote]
yep that's what I've always done and I'm amazed at the number of players who don't do that and they leave loads of windings on the peg too.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='jazzyvee' timestamp='1441446700' post='2858926']
yep that's what I've always done and I'm amazed at the number of players who don't do that and they leave loads of windings on the peg too.
[/quote]
I'd say as long as they do not overlap then more windings on the peg is very good; especially with flat Fender style headstocks.

[bubinga5]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1441369938' post='2858343']
I use flats for everything now. Not only do they last a long time, with modern flats it's possible to get a very wide range of tones.
[/quote]with all respect, its still a flat wound tone no matter how many flat wound tones you can get from it.. i don't want to be rude to any flat wound players out there, but the voicing of a bass seems to be canceled out by flat wound strings. maybe I'm missing something. yes i probably am.

i tried a set of La Bella flats on a jazz bass i used to own, and i just didn't see/hear the point.. sucked the life out of the instrument. a subjective point of course.

Edited September 5, 2015 by bubinga5