BassMunkee Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 Seems to me it's a bit like being a film director, Stephen Spielberg doesn't make his films, lots of other people make his films, he pulls it together and decides what goes where and so on and so forth - (VERY simply). I guess being a producer in music is like that... ...or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='277081' date='Sep 4 2008, 03:13 PM']I hear what you're saying, but... Someone mentioned earlier how great a producer Phil Spector was. And he was. He also knew *exactly* what he wanted each instrument to do. HOWEVER... he didn't play the instruments himself. He got someone else to do it. Someone who knew that role inside-out. Do you respect him less because of that? ...a producer's relationship with their engineer is no different.[/quote] I don't know much about phil spector sorry..... If I wanted a paiting on my wall, I would go out and find a painting I liked, and then hang it. If I knew exactly what the painting should be, I would try to paint it myself. If I could get an artist to paint it for me, exactly as it was in my head, I would be a communications genius. I don't have less respect for a composer who can't play his own music compared to a composer who can, but to compose music you have to understand how to relate that music to musicians using notation etc. To be fair, I do think you have a point. Maybe great producers are communications geniuses! Most of this thought process was spaked by the realisation that I loved the sound of certain albums which Rick Rubin had worked on, but Rich Costey had engineered. When Rich Costey broke away to produce stuff AND engineer it, it all sounded as good, if not better than when he worked with Rick Rubin. When I realised Rick Rubin didn't have a clue about actually technically crafting the sound - just what he wanted something to "feel" like, I thought it was pretty obvious which of the two was accomplishing the amazing sound of the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 The producer has responsibility for much more than just which faders get pushed on the desk. It's actually all about communicating, and people skills. A good producer gives an artist the environment, guidance and assurance they need to give their best possible performance. The engineer has a purely technical role, but the producer has to keep all those egos in check!! Obviously every band spends an enormous amount of time crafting their sound and their songs, but sometimes it's impossible to be completely objective about something that you are so personally and emotionally invested in. A producer can offer an objective and independent viewpoint, that can bring to light different ways of approaching a not-quite-right song, or just polishing up the rough edges of something that's already nearly there. I think the contribution they make is severely overlooked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabootsy Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 has anyone mentioned Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards? Gods as far as i am concerned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 No love for Adrian Sherwood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 [quote name='Rich' post='276900' date='Sep 4 2008, 12:42 PM']Prince[/quote] +1 Great producer, great musician, great writer and great performer. As if that's not enough, apparently he can engineer as well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fudge Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Terry Brown. Best bass rock tones in the history of man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Saying that a producer isn't crafting the sound because he isn't 'hands on' is like saying a conductor isn't responsible for the sound of his orchestra! Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouMa Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 Trevor "Welcome to the pleasure dome" horn,hats off to synths and big airy chords! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 [quote name='mike257' post='278120' date='Sep 5 2008, 07:02 PM']The producer has responsibility for much more than just which faders get pushed on the desk. It's actually all about communicating, and people skills. A good producer gives an artist the environment, guidance and assurance they need to give their best possible performance. The engineer has a purely technical role, but the producer has to keep all those egos in check!! Obviously every band spends an enormous amount of time crafting their sound and their songs, but sometimes it's impossible to be completely objective about something that you are so personally and emotionally invested in. A producer can offer an objective and independent viewpoint, that can bring to light different ways of approaching a not-quite-right song, or just polishing up the rough edges of something that's already nearly there. I think the contribution they make is severely overlooked.[/quote] I think you're spot on. Also , keep in mind that it's very common to see an experienced producer help a young band break. Then as the bands career develops and they gain experience in the studio they take more of a role in production - co-producing and eventually producing their own recordings. I've a fiver in my pocket that says most of us in these parts would mix the bass too high - and what we have at the end of the writing/rehearsing process - is not set in stone as a finished product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted September 6, 2008 Author Share Posted September 6, 2008 (edited) A bad producer will make a band sound like its record company wants them to sound. I also think of all that bad hair rock from the 80's, with enormous snares and reverb and gates everywhere. I think Ed Stasium got it right with Living Colours first album, for that big, in your face rock sound but Heart and Starships 80's output was, it was a time when hair had more lacquer than a Jaydee Series 1 and mullets roamed the streets, T'pau were famous and bigger was better. I have a feeling that we may revisit these ways in the future. Edited September 6, 2008 by steve-soar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 (edited) [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='278264' date='Sep 5 2008, 10:54 PM']No love for Adrian Sherwood?[/quote] +1 for Sherwood - good call. Did some amazing On-U Sound stuff. I'm goind to add Andrew Weatherall & Jacknife Lee Though not strictly bassists Edited September 6, 2008 by nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJA Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 [quote name='mike257' post='278120' date='Sep 5 2008, 07:02 PM']The producer has responsibility for much more than just which faders get pushed on the desk. It's actually all about communicating, and people skills. A good producer gives an artist the environment, guidance and assurance they need to give their best possible performance. The engineer has a purely technical role, but the producer has to keep all those egos in check!![/quote] yeah, Rick Rubin is a "people organiser" as opposed to the all-round expert musician/composer/arranger producers like Quincy Jones and Trevor Horn. bassist producers- John Paul Jones (The Mission), Peter Hook (Stone Roses' "elephant stone"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJA Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 (edited) [quote name='cheddatom' post='276751' date='Sep 4 2008, 09:49 AM']I love listening to the sound of albums, the "production" but I think a lot of producers get credit for things they haven't done. I always though Rick Rubin was a master producer, considering the amazing sound on some of the albums he's done, but I read in an interview that he doesn't and has no interest in knowing how to use a mixing desk. He just tells an engineer how he wants it to sound. With the description of sounds being so entirely subjective, I find it hard to beleive that he has been the one actually "crafting" the sound.[/quote] following on from noticing that Andy Wallace engineered/mixed The Cult's Rubin-produced Electric album [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Wallace_(producer)"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Wallace_(producer)[/url] another one is Brendan O'Brien engineering/mixing RHCP's Rubin-produced BSSM- [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_O'Brien_(music_producer)"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_O'...music_producer)[/url] (and other engineers used on Rubin-produced RHCP Californication and Metallica's Death magnetic resulting in noticeably poorer sound quality) seems like the engineers here are the really talented ones- but lacking in self-confidence and leadership skills- but with experience over time they gain self-confidence and acquire those skills and move up to become producers themselves. Rick Rubin just has the leadership skills and self-confidence, and probably a larger-than-life persona too. like many a "music mogul" (see Tony Wilson, Alan McGee, Malcolm McClaren, Andrew Loog Oldham etc.) the opposite scenario is Trevor Horn and Mutt Lange- who are practically the musicians making the music itself. on Radio2's Producers programme on Trevor Horn it was apparent that he was pretty much the artist on Malcolm McClaren's "duck rock" album- McClaren just had a vague idea of what he wanted the music to sound like, and TH created it. Edited September 15, 2008 by SJA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Yeh that's my point - Respect to Rubin for finding the right engineer, knowing how to call people up, make sure they're on time, tell them to shut up or whatever, but he's not actually doing anything to the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJA Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 (edited) RHCP's Californication sounds awful to my ears, but I'm unsure where the problem lies- over-compression/loudness maximising etc. at the mixing stage or the mastering stage, and/or just a lousy mix to start with- which would suggest Rubin doesn't even know what makes a good mix. I read an old interview with Chuck Prophet (guitarist with Green On Red) where he recounted the false start recording his solo album "with a famous producer credited with Blondie and the Ramones" who was suggested by the record label, and finding that the guy was clueless, and embarassed to be found out as such. that would be Craig Leon. the singer/songwriter whose band I played in last year did an album with Craig Leon producing, and he (CL) was less than complimentary about his experience working with Ian McNabb. sounds like severe personality/ego clashes in both cases. also there's an amusing interview with XTC's Andy Partridge about his attempts at producing Blur- [url="http://www.mp3.com/news/stories/7768.html"]http://www.mp3.com/news/stories/7768.html[/url] which sheds some light into the role of the producer in band ego management, and mediating between the band and the label. (programmed drums on Blur's albums with Stephen Street?!) "I don't actually like producing people now because I think it's more about being a social worker than anything to do with music." Edited September 15, 2008 by SJA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 [quote name='SJA' post='284260' date='Sep 15 2008, 02:27 PM']RHCP's Californication sounds awful to my ears, but I'm unsure where the problem lies- over-compression/loudness maximising etc. at the mixing stage or the mastering stage, and/or just a lousy mix to start with- which would suggest Rubin doesn't even know what makes a good mix.[/quote] I really like the sound of Californication. Yes it's very compressed, and yes you can hear some awful distortion at one or two points during the album, but it's a great drum sound, and all of the instruments cut through and sound great and.... Well I haven't heard it recently so it's hard for me to justify me loving the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJA Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 a pertinent blog entry by Manager/ex-V2 A&R man Ben Wardle on producers- [url="http://benwardle.blogspot.com/2008/09/how-i-became-drug-runner.html"]http://benwardle.blogspot.com/2008/09/how-...rug-runner.html[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
En_Djinn Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 [quote name='steve-soar' post='276597' date='Sep 3 2008, 11:11 PM']are there any other producers that are bassists?[/quote] Can't believe no-ones mentioned Mike Howlett. Bass player for Gong. Put together a band called Strontium 90 that later found fame as The Police. A founding member of the Record Producers Guild, now called the Music Producers Guild (of which he is currently chairman) [url="http://www.mpg.org.uk/home"]http://www.mpg.org.uk/home[/url] Grammy Award winning producer, check out the biography: [url="http://www.mikehowlett.co.uk/"]http://www.mikehowlett.co.uk/[/url] Gratuitous groove link Not like I'm a fan or anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassMunkee Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 [quote]I've a fiver in my pocket that says most of us in these parts would mix the bass too high[/quote] +1 Same as a guitard would zap the guitar up, a drummer the drums, etc... That's why you need a producer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 (edited) Zombie thread revival, but I knew we had touched on bassist/producers and I've just come across one who has, IMO, helped to create a folk/pop masterpiece. Daniel Bengston is a multi-instrumentalist and producer of the latest First Aid Kit album Palomino. Yes, the duo are great, but he lifts the two female voices/acoustic guitar format to new heights. Edited March 3, 2023 by Mykesbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterMute Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 On 02/10/2008 at 02:59, En_Djinn said: [quote name='steve-soar' post='276597' date='Sep 3 2008, 11:11 PM']are there any other producers that are bassists?[/quote] Can't believe no-ones mentioned Mike Howlett. Bass player for Gong. Put together a band called Strontium 90 that later found fame as The Police. A founding member of the Record Producers Guild, now called the Music Producers Guild (of which he is currently chairman) [url="http://www.mpg.org.uk/home"]http://www.mpg.org.uk/home[/url] Grammy Award winning producer, check out the biography: [url="http://www.mikehowlett.co.uk/"]http://www.mikehowlett.co.uk/[/url] Gratuitous groove link http://basschat.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/%3C#EMO_DIR%23%3E/smile.png Not like I'm a fan or anything http://basschat.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/%3C#EMO_DIR%23%3E/wink.png I worked with Mike when we were lecturing together at UWL/LCM in London, not only is he a fine bassist and producer, but he's a thoroughly decent fellow too. Weird in that 70's slightly spaced out way, but a genuinely fine human being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Steve Vai records always sound immaculate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Talking of Steve Vai and bass player producers, Bill Laswell is one of the greatest! He even got Vai (and Ginger Baker and Bernie Worrell and Nicky Skopelitis) to play on this... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassie Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Trevor Horn Julian Mendelsohn Tim Simenon Arnold Lanni Michael Beinhorn Mutt Lange Brendan O'Brien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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