Classic gear, how good was it really.

[TheGreek]

wanna read this later..

[Cat Burrito]

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1442180605' post='2865010']And also bare in mind, the sound of these shows were mixed to suit the sound of your average 1970's Ferguson mono telly speaker. They didnt know that in the future we would be watching these shows on our state of the art - hi def - nicam -surround sound tellys.[/quote]

I think there is a lot of truth in this. I'd add modern gear is lighter and in many ways superior but there is a lot to be said for some of the old stuff too.

If you look at bass guitars, little has changed from the original formula but amps are pretty much a new breed.

[blue]

I think the name brand basses I play today are better than the Fenders & Gibson basses I played back in the 60s & 70s.

Blue

[Lozz196]

I do find that when I think of "awesome" bass tones that very many of them have not been recorded recently. I can`t remember what song it was but was listening to Sounds of The 70s on Sunday, and thought the bass was great, really good presence in the track, every note audible, yet no booming low-end (as that obviously hadn`t yet been invented).

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1506497186' post='3379078']
...yet no booming low-end...
[/quote]

You mean no heft?

[mikel]

I can confirm that Orange Matamp, Marshall, Hi-Watt and even WEM bass gear was awesome, having played in bands back in the 70s. The best bass sound I ever heard was an Orange amp through a WEM 2 x 15 ported cab. Trouser flapping good, with tone to die for. The quality could be variable but that would be down to the components available at the time.

My bro bought a Precision in 1981 and it had a nice tone, but lots of dead spots on the neck. He was told to simply "Play around them like a proper bassist", by a proper bassist. He bought a Status 5 years later, problems solved.

[pfretrock]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1442189530' post='2865068']
... I don't know anyone who'd choose to drive to gigs in one these days.
[/quote]

John Shuttleworth?

[TrevorR]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1506467682' post='3379010']
I think the name brand basses I play today are better than the Fenders & Gibson basses I played back in the 60s & 70s.

Blue
[/quote]

I suspect that in 30 years we'll be talking about how great 2010s basses were... it's funny how perspectives change. Esp with your comments on 70s instruments. You hear so much purple prose about 70s Fenders these days. Classics. Amazing tones. Block necks. The new desirable vintage instruments...

I can remember reading the music mags throughout the 80s and 90s when the absolutely agreed position on 70s Fenders was - avoid at all costs, the era where the post CBS bean counting kicked in and quality plummeted, dodgy wobbly three bolt necks with a stupid tilt screw that never worked, ill advised departures from the classic designs, those awful blobby head stocks, poor cheap wood that weighs a ton and doesn't resonate, over wound pickups that sucked your tone... and so on.

They were considered the doggiest of dogs to play and listen to. Yet now they're nouveau classics. The joy of rose tinted glasses and marketing pressure I suspect.

Edited September 27, 2017 by TrevorR

[ambient]

I expect the main difference would have been the weight, especially with amplification.

Quality might have been better too, we seem to have reached a point in time whereby we throw stuff away rather than get it repaired.

[mikel]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1506598114' post='3379810']
I expect the main difference would have been the weight, especially with amplification.

Quality might have been better too, we seem to have reached a point in time whereby we throw stuff away rather than get it repaired.
[/quote]

You could be right. Have even the "Quality" amplification and instrument companies gone down the "Built down to a price rather than up to a standard" route?

I am not talking the bespoke amp and instrument makers but the quality, as such, end of the mass market. Think Marshall, Orange, Fender, Gibson etc. Would you pay, say....an extra £100 for a piece of equipment if it was hand fettled by a craftsman and checked over by a good QC operative? I would.

Edited September 28, 2017 by mikel

[la bam]

I think a lot of the aura and appeal of classic gear is it was directly telated to iconic bands, iconic music and an iconic time.

All the classics from that era were played on that equipment and all our heroes used it.

Todays music has very little in icons and iconic gear. Im not sure what todays youth will look back on and yearn for music wise? A laptop? A piece of software? A generic midi synth?

[ambient]

[quote name='la bam' timestamp='1506601822' post='3379852']
I think a lot of the aura and appeal of classic gear is it was directly telated to iconic bands, iconic music and an iconic time.

All the classics from that era were played on that equipment and all our heroes used it.

Todays music has very little in icons and iconic gear. Im not sure what todays youth will look back on and yearn for music wise? A laptop? A piece of software? A generic midi synth?
[/quote]

I think also, there's so much more gear around nowadays. Guys I like seem to have a different endorsement every other year.

[chris_b]

I thought I sounded pretty good in the 60's and 70's with my 100 watt Marshall amp and 412 cab. Though on reflection I probably sounded much like every one else.

I then played through a 100 watt Simms Watts and 412 and then a 100 watt Hiwatt and 2 412 cabs. I even toured with an SVT and fridge.

But the reality is I have had a better tone and volume in the last 10 years with Bergantino, Aguilar, Thunderfunk and Barefaced than I ever got back in the day.

[martthebass]

I loved my TE sound back in the day but I'm more than happy with the better flexibility of my current MB set up soundwise. Nostalgia isn't what it once was......

[yorks5stringer]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1442189530' post='2865068']
Bass gear sounded fine back in the 60's and 70's for what it was and for what people wanted. It did its job but it sounded very different to how bass sounds today. The bass players I used to see were never quiet in the clubs. The sound coming out of TV's was pretty bad across the board, but IME it was usually recorded pretty well.

I think bass gear has never sounded better, but Ronnie Wood playing Beck-ola on Bergantino or EBS gear would not have sounded half as good as he did through his 200 watt Marshall stack with every speaker straining to burst through the front cloth.

I used to travel to my gigs in a Morris 1000 Traveller. There might be people who still think they are great little cars but I don't know anyone who'd choose to drive to gigs in one these days.
[/quote]

Pretty sure if 'Morris and the Minors' were still going strong, it would be their transport of choice....
Incidentally, I had 3 of them (not all at once)!

Edited September 28, 2017 by yorks5stringer

[chris_b]

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1506612335' post='3379952']
Incidentally, I had 3 of them (not all at once)!
[/quote]

I only had 1. That was enough! My 412 and amp just fitted neatly in the back but the thing was a veritable rust bucket. An unfortunate trait in the British car industry at the time!

Bass gear and cars from the 60's and 70's. . . . IMO neither can match up to what we can buy these days.

[Norris]

I didn't really start playing until the 80s but then I recall that 70s guitars and basses were considered crap - CBS ruined them all. Of course now they are worth a fortune.

I always hankered after a Fender Bassman stack but couldn't afford one. Pretty quickly they were simply not powerful enough. Nowadays my back twinges at the thought of one. Sod vintage tone - I'll keep my class D

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1506620814' post='3380024']
I didn't really start playing until the 80s but then I recall that 70s guitars and basses were considered crap - CBS ruined them all. Of course now they are worth a fortune.
[/quote]

AFAICS they are only worth a fortune because the older ones are even more eye wateringly expensive.

[el borracho]

[quote name='pfretrock' timestamp='1506507487' post='3379181']
John Shuttleworth?
[/quote]
He's updated to an Austin Ambassador Y Reg these days I believe

[taunton-hobbit]

I've got a clutch of Matamps (valve) and a Crown 2000.(class D)
The Crown is audibly 'faster' on the response, the valve kit not so, but sounds 'meatier' (heft?),
I prefer the valve stuff, but then it's what I grew up with, and that's important...........

[radiophonic]

One thing to remember is that at least as recently as the 90s, your rig was a significant part of FOH. A lot of old gear was built to be run hard and loud night after night and to deliver a sound that could fill a room. Most bands only put the singer in the PA. That world is largely gone and modern kit is often more of a monitor. I'm not sure we're comparing like with like a lot of the time.

[rushbo]

Would I swap my Genz Benz rig for any of the "Classic" stuff I had in the past? Nope. As much as I love the idea of having an old, road-worn bass, I can't justify the huge expense and anyway, I love the sounds I can get out of my bitsa, P-Basses.

[outsider70]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1442342585' post='2866263']


The first Orange heads were built by Matt Mathias at Matamp and badged Orange. Orange was just a music store in London at the time selling mainly second hand gear. Matt was a purist and perfectionist who was not at all keen on hi-gain. It was one of the reasons Matt and Cliff Cooper fell out, as Cliff was pushing for more dirt.

So vintage Orange will be cleaner. Plus all the older Orange stuff is 100% hand-wired and very reliable, unlike the new Chinese built printed circuit board stuff. I don't think you could even compare them, two totally different things.
[/quote]

Late seventies/early eighties I had a Marshall Superbass 100w valve head with two 412 cabs. Boy it could fill a room but I wanted a clean sound back then, but it was unachievable with the Marshall. Knowing what I know now tho it would probably be tone nirvana for me these days!
I remember Matt at Matamp giving me a factory tour and demo of his 100w Matamp. He took great delight in showing how loud it could go, but it was no more than a distorted mush. Had an Orange valve head back then too. It used to cutout midsong every gig, same song everytime.

[Beer of the Bass]

I'd say this is an example of a nice bass sound on an old OGWT performance, if a little low in the mix. But then it looks like he's using a Fender Showman on some sort of fridge-sized cab and it doesn't sound like the band are playing loud, so that keeps it out of fart territory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soOiBvbRvsw

[blue]

Vintage basses, a lot of variables in how good they actually we're.

However, I've never owned an amp as nice as the Ampeg SVT I purchased new in 1972, loud,clean, warm just an awesome amp.


I'd like to go back to tubes someday.For my style of playing it will probably be an Orange guitar rig.

You guys, should check out Tom Peterson's if Cheap Tricks rig run down on YouTube. It's fabulous.

Blue