The Guys That Give Up, Why?

[blue]

Like most of my threads this one also applys to the local and regional bands.

Ever wonder why some of these very good rock musicians give up on the whole being in a band thing, and in general have a sour taste towards bands?

My thoughts are, a lot of these guys are great musicians but not great planners or decision makers.

Do any of you guys know the local guy,lets say guitarist that was/is very good, however always chose to be in bad bands, By bad bands I mean bands with questionable members. By questionable members I mean where if there was a paying gig, they always had some reason he never received his cut. OK,and the bands that scored very few if any gigs and couldn't figure out how to make money and fall apart within 6 months?

If that was my experience, I doubt I would be all that positive on bands,

My point is, for guys that have had bad luck with bands ( it happens ) or guys looking for their first band, be careful. You should know why and what kind of band you want to join before looking.

As far as criteria is concerned , I think everyone should have [i]"Only Play with Good, Honest and Trustworthy People" [/i] at the top of everyone's list.

Please share your comment, suggestions or stories about picking and joining rock bands.

Blue

Edited September 14, 2015 by blue

[lurksalot]

I think the 'band' reference in this instance is easy to translate to any group of individuals , if you actually work out how easily and quickly personal relationships fall apart , the fact that some people actually manage to transcend all their differences , lifestyles, inertia and commitments and play music with dudes they didn't even know before , would suggest the actual chances of making a band that stayed together, quite remarkable in its own right .

[discreet]

[quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1442273867' post='2865741']
...the actual chances of making a band that stayed together, quite remarkable in its own right .
[/quote]

This. It's easy to be a successful band, all you have to do is be focused, keep at it and stay together for long enough for it to happen. This is very rare, as one or more band members will inevitably become disillusioned or sidetracked or distracted and it's back to square one.

As Woody Allen said, 80% of success is showing up - and he's right.

[Slipperydick]

In my experience, your first band, or first few, are made up of your friends which rarely works out - Jimmy quit, Joey got married etc. etc.

Later, you start to play in bands with other muso's, not mates. Its a different game entirely. All of the myths and romantic expectations about being in a little gang, all for one and one for all go out of the window. Band politics come into it, a bit of bullying here, a bit of backbiting there. Thats where people either carry on doing it for years, or realise that they dont actually like the reality of it all, and quit.

[blue]

[quote name='Slipperydick' timestamp='1442280148' post='2865745']
In my experience, your first band, or first few, are made up of your friends which rarely works out - Jimmy quit, Joey got married etc. etc.

Later, you start to play in bands with other muso's, not mates. Its a different game entirely. All of the myths and romantic expectations about being in a little gang, all for one and one for all go out of the window. Band politics come into it, a bit of bullying here, a bit of backbiting there. Thats where people either carry on doing it for years, or realise that they dont actually like the reality of it all, and quit.
[/quote]

Well, I think there is a maturity curve to consider.

Older guys like me ( the 60 plus crowd ) I would think, don't have many of the same issues and concerns we had in bands 40 years ago. At this point you would hope we all know all of the basics of [i]"How To Be In A Band". [/i]I think many of us have seen or had to work with guys that unfortunately are good enough musicians , but don't know how to be in a band.

I no longer car about musical input. I don't care about what songs we play, musical direction of the band or what I like or dislike playing or what other people in the band are doing in terms of the strengths of their individual performances. None of those things have anything to do with my role and place in my band. Month's where we don't have much booked, that's something I'm concerned about.

Blue

Edited September 15, 2015 by blue

[sprocketflup]

Its horses for courses innit? You obviously take a great deal of pleasure and are very involved with what you do Blue, but we're all different aren't we?

[chris_b]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1442281334' post='2865746']
I no longer car about musical input. I don't care about what songs we play, musical direction of the band or what I like or dislike playing or what other people in the band are doing in terms of the strengths of their individual performances. None of those things have anything to do with my role and place in my band. Month's where we don't have much booked, that's something I'm concerned about.
[/quote]

I know exactly how you feel. I go through patches where I feel the same, but, to quote Lee Sklar, "I give a sh*t", so I try to push, cajole and suggest ways of dealing with "problems the band might have.

The cover band just lost a drummer we've been playing with for nearly 10 years. He was good, but lazy, and was getting lazier by the week. He [i]didn't [/i]give a sh*t, but we (because I made us) spent 3 months trying to get him back up to speed. It didn't work and so he's gone. That's going to be a very big change to my playing life, but he will be replaced and the gigs will (always) go on.

At this point in my playing life the motto is "Never give up".

[cheddatom]

I'm not bothered about success, therefore I enjoy it! I'm in a band with two very old mates, and whilst it was great fun at first to play loads of gigs, we hardly ever get together now. We probably play together once or twice a month at the most, and haven't gigged in ages. It doesn't bother me at all, I just love the music, and the guys

If I wanted to try and make a living from playing I think it'd be very difficult to find a group of musicians that I know who could commit

[Lozz196]

A guy I know is probably one of the best guitarists I`ve ever seen - not just locally, all over, he really is that good. But "the right" band/opportunity has never come along. Essentially instead of working to make something right I get the feeling he wants to walk into the right thing when already established, having let the others work towards what he wants. Sure sometimes it works out, but expecting 3 or 4 others to be psychic is a bit of an ask. A real waste of a talent in my view.

[Low End Bee]

'Hell is other people. Especially if they're drummers'

J P Sartre.

[chris_b]

That Frank Sartre always had his finger on the pulse when it came to drummers.

[CHW]

Because being in a band is tough. If there are a few dominant personalities someone always needs to back down and if its always one person getting their own way then something will eventually give.

Getting gigs is difficult, especially getting paid gigs- you need to be something of a sales person to be really good at getting bookings in, and it can take time for a band to become profitable. I'm not sure exactly how long, but I've been with a band for 4 years, and the gigs are now regular, but they weren't at all to start with. I'm still not sure whether the band has paid me back for what I've spent on it.

It is a difficult thing to genuinely enjoy every moment of band work. Unless you are playing that genre of music that you love, and all of your band mates are equally committed, you are bound to not particularly like, or enjoy some of the material (be that covers or originals).

Gigs to one man and his dog, gigs where the punters are a bunch of arseholes, gigs where you play a blinder, the punters love it and the landlord says- "No, not for my pub lads"

[paul h]

I wouldn't say I have a sour taste towards bands...but I do have a sour taste towards people. And bands.

[karlfer]

Sometimes it's other commitments, outside influences etc, but there really are so many variables for each individual.

[TimR]

Flexibility.

You need a certain amount of hard headedness but you also need to be flexible about everything you do.

'Musical differences' - you will never find a group of people who want to play exactly the same tunes, at exactly the same time, with exactly the same regularity, in exactly the same type of venues.

Compromise.

If you don't get flexibility and compromise from everyone then there is no band.

The people I meet who are disillusioned with it fit into the no compromise and inflexibility bracket.

Funnily enough, you can't tell them that.

Edited September 15, 2015 by TimR

[Graham]

I'm 30 and gig fairly regularly in a covers act, aim to be out once a week, but averages 2-3 shows a month at the moment.

I had considered jacking it in recently though, as I feel like all I've done since we started playing together again in July (our singer went travelling for the first 6 months of this year) is argue with my wife about me playing. She really struggles when I have to leave the house before the kids go to bed, particularly as our youngest was going through a phase of just not going to sleep for a couple of hours after being put to bed.

She also hates that events - Christmas, New Year, Halloween, bank holidays etc are all prime times for booking a band, and so she's left on her own while at these times of year (Boxing Day was a particular sore point) whilst I'm out working.

However, I need the money and the recent gigs have been at more civilised times, I suspect this is a problem I'm going to have every year during the summer when it's prime wedding and party season until the kids are older

[JTUK]

Generally..arty people aren't always good business people and it takes a lot more than just being able to play.

A local college which churns out musicians and they end op on the local scene offers the business angle well enough
but I think it is really hard to get a lot of people to have the playing down AND business. One side tends to dominate the other.

Other times, it is a lot deeper than this..and the guy just hasn't got his s*** together at all.
And nothing will save you if you are a complete ar$e to work with.. IMO.

[JTUK]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1442281334' post='2865746']
Well, I think there is a maturity curve to consider.

Older guys like me ( the 60 plus crowd ) I would think, don't have many of the same issues and concerns we had in bands 40 years ago. At this point you would hope we all know all of the basics of [i]"How To Be In A Band". [/i]I think many of us have seen or had to work with guys that unfortunately are good enough musicians , but don't know how to be in a band.

[b]I no longer car about musical input. I don't care about what songs we play, musical direction of the band or what I like or dislike playing or what other people in the band are doing in terms of the strengths of their individual performances. None of those things have anything to do with my role and place in my band. Month's where we don't have much booked, that's something I'm concerned about.[/b]

Blue
[/quote]

I definitely care about all those things... massively.

The only point I don't care about..because I don't need to, is gigs. I will do gigs but I'm not wasting my time or the other guys time on
gigs of a certain nature or even stature.

It is either a good gig or it is not. Funnily enough the other guys, who should be more picky about the work they do...because of the work they can get and indeed do get....aren't or can't be as picky.

Basically, I wont waste their time for gigs that don't pay minimum £80 per head. I suspect they may go cheaper from time to time..and have to, but I'll generally not call these guys for that money. That is a basic 4 pub for a 4 piece..it gets much harder introducing a 5th member.
Parties, which is what the band excels at, are easy

[ivansc]

After 60 years of playing for pay I am down to a very few gigs a year with my 60s band, which now has NO original members left in it.

I have the luxury of being able to turn up and play at an invitations only jam of a very high standard whenever I feel like it and use the house band, who are great players and LISTEN.

But I am getting tempted to maybe start up a little band as well..... hard to let go the habits of a lifetime.
But one thing that band will NOT be is a democracy. They never ever work. Someone has to be the responsible adult. (grin)

[spongebob]

I must admit, I have close in recent months. Just dissatisfaction with bands/gigs/musicians. Music has always been my life - social life, what fills up my head all day. I started to think how, or if, I could live without it - and wondered how much I do it because of the love of it, or simply because it's just 'what I do'? I've played with other musicians for nearly 30 years, started jamming at 11...so all my life, really.

I feel the band and gig scene has definitely shrunk, and the opportunities are less.

However, I think you can reach a point when you feel like you've done it all - I could play the same gigs for another 10 years, and they'll be still screaming for Mustang....! Like you've reached as far as it'll go, and it's just an endless loop of repetition after that....with a Mustang soundtrack.

As has been mentioned - do you play anything just to be out there playing? Or do you fill your time with something else?

Bad patch, I hope....

[Spoombung]

More people should quit.

[blue]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1442312221' post='2865901']
A guy I know is probably one of the best guitarists I`ve ever seen - not just locally, all over, he really is that good. But "the right" band/opportunity has never come along. Essentially instead of working to make something right I get the feeling he wants to walk into the right thing when already established, having let the others work towards what he wants. Sure sometimes it works out, but expecting 3 or 4 others to be psychic is a bit of an ask. A real waste of a talent in my view.
[/quote]

Like Sprocket mentioned above, "Were All Different".

When I was looking for a band 4 years ago,I knew exactly what I was looking for. I had no interest
in originals or start up projects. I'm not picky about the genre however I restricted my search to established bands (meaning bands that had at least a couple of years up and running with the original core members) with a history of consistent paying gigs as well as future gigs on the books. We call this a "turn key" opportunity. I was lucky and found that band. Not easy, I basically followed them around and let them know I was looking and was interested. Turned out at some point their bass player was going in a different direction. After auditioning about 3 times , I was offered the job.

They all turned out to be cool, knowledgeable, fair and trustworthy people. 4 years later I'm still with them and couldn't be happier. Thing is, if the band folded I would be sunk. In my area finding bands that are into making money and gigging a lot, basically don't exist. All most every ad for bass players has the phrase [i]" We only do this for fun and gig once every couple of months."[/i]

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1442319887' post='2865996']
I definitely care about all those things... massively.

The only point I don't care about..because I don't need to, is gigs. I will do gigs but I'm not wasting my time or the other guys time on
gigs of a certain nature or even stature.

It is either a good gig or it is not. Funnily enough the other guys, who should be more picky about the work they do...because of the work they can get and indeed do get....aren't or can't be as picky.

Basically, I wont waste their time for gigs that don't pay minimum £80 per head. I suspect they may go cheaper from time to time..and have to, but I'll generally not call these guys for that money. That is a basic 4 pub for a 4 piece..it gets much harder introducing a 5th member.
Parties, which is what the band excels at, are easy
[/quote]

Were almost complete opposites, the more gigs the better. I love 3-4 gig weekends. We have a $100.00 per man minimum. I say, any paying gig is a good gig. After 9 years all the bad venues have been weeded out. I think things start to change for the better when you get to the point where you have a good fan base and the crowd is there specifically to see you. However, building up that fan base takes time and a lot of work.

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='Graham' timestamp='1442318868' post='2865984']
I'm 30 and gig fairly regularly in a covers act, aim to be out once a week, but averages 2-3 shows a month at the moment.

I had considered jacking it in recently though, as I feel like all I've done since we started playing together again in July (our singer went travelling for the first 6 months of this year) is argue with my wife about me playing. She really struggles when I have to leave the house before the kids go to bed, particularly as our youngest was going through a phase of just not going to sleep for a couple of hours after being put to bed.

She also hates that events - Christmas, New Year, Halloween, bank holidays etc are all prime times for booking a band, and so she's left on her own while at these times of year (Boxing Day was a particular sore point) whilst I'm out working.

However, I need the money and the recent gigs have been at more civilised times, I suspect this is a problem I'm going to have every year during the summer when it's prime wedding and party season until the kids are older
[/quote]

I couldn't think of a worse time to be in a working band. Your young with a young family.

If your wife is questioning your gig schedule you might be better off sitting out for a while, most guys do when raising a family. I'm single, but they tell me, you can always find a band but a good family life is hard to find.

Blue

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='spongebob' timestamp='1442334696' post='2866158']
I must admit, I have close in recent months. Just dissatisfaction with bands/gigs/musicians. Music has always been my life - social life, what fills up my head all day. I started to think how, or if, I could live without it - and wondered how much I do it because of the love of it, or simply because it's just 'what I do'? I've played with other musicians for nearly 30 years, started jamming at 11...so all my life, really.

I feel the band and gig scene has definitely shrunk, and the opportunities are less.

However, I think you can reach a point when you feel like you've done it all - I could play the same gigs for another 10 years, and they'll be still screaming for Mustang....! Like you've reached as far as it'll go, and it's just an endless loop of repetition after that....with a Mustang soundtrack.

As has been mentioned - do you play anything just to be out there playing? Or do you fill your time with something else?

Bad patch, I hope....
[/quote]

I've got something similar going on at the moment. I had a couple of bass guitar gigs over August after having laid off it for a while. I was kind of enthused going into it, but the gigs just weren't particularly satisfying, even though I'd enjoyed exactly the same gigs in previous years it just felt a little flat this time. Another band I play in (on guitar) is feeling that way too, as we're gigging only sporadically and they always seem to be in the middle of the night in dismal concrete rooms to wasted audiences who would jump up and down to anything. We've got an album in the bag ready to be pressed, but we faffed about for so long doing it that it's all songs we were playing three years ago, which cuts down the excitement slightly.
The most enjoyable thing I've got going on at the moment are some fairly ad-hoc jazz gigs on double bass with a quartet that barely exists between gigs and doesn't rehearse. I don't really have jazz chops so I'm winging it to some extent, and I guess the learning curve is part of the enjoyment there. I'm almost inclined to pursue that angle for the moment rather than more structured bands.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Beer of the Bass