The Guys That Give Up, Why?

[blue]

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1442332902' post='2866131']
After 60 years of playing for pay I am down to a very few gigs a year with my 60s band, which now has NO original members left in it.

I have the luxury of being able to turn up and play at an invitations only jam of a very high standard whenever I feel like it and use the house band, who are great players and LISTEN.

But I am getting tempted to maybe start up a little band as well..... hard to let go the habits of a lifetime.
But one thing that band will NOT be is a democracy. They never ever work. Someone has to be the responsible adult. (grin)
[/quote]

I have 50 years invested into rock bands and gigging. I think my first gig was in 1966. I guess I never outgrew the rock and roll spirit.

My band plays over 70 shows a year. Funny, I'm 62 and every Friday, Saturday or Sunday I am just as excited about gigging and have the same spirit for it I had when I was 12 years old.

Were all different.

Blue

[blue]

In case I sound a little cocky about me and my band.Let me say this;

I have made all the mistakes I have mentioned and in the past, have joined bands without thinking things through in terms of why I want to be in a band and what I'm looking for in a band. Every time it was a disaster. However, I learned from my mistakes.

Hopefully, this thread might help someone that's presently looking for a first band ( the most important IMO ) or someone in between bands.

Blue

[peteb]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1442337116' post='2866182']


Like Sprocket mentioned above, "Were All Different".

When I was looking for a band 4 years ago,I knew exactly what I was looking for. I had no interest
in originals or start up projects. I'm not picky about the genre however I restricted my search to established bands (meaning bands that had at least a couple of years up and running with the original core members) with a history of consistent paying gigs as well as future gigs on the books. We call this a "turn key" opportunity. I was lucky and found that band. Not easy, I basically followed them around and let them know I was looking and was interested. Turned out at some point their bass player was going in a different direction. After auditioning about 3 times , I was offered the job.

They all turned out to be cool, knowledgeable, fair and trustworthy people. 4 years later I'm still with them and couldn't be happier. Thing is, if the band folded I would be sunk. In my area finding bands that are into making money and gigging a lot, basically don't exist. All most every ad for bass players has the phrase [i]" We only do this for fun and gig once every couple of months."[/i]

Blue
[/quote]
Personally I wouldn’t be so against doing a start-up band.

About 18 months ago I was asked to join an established local rock covers band that gets plenty of local gigs. Even though they’re an OK band, I wasn’t particularly bothered and passed. Instead I accepted an invitation to join a start-up band (doing broadly similar stuff) with a couple of guys who I knew could play. It took a bit of time to get off the ground but we were gigging about 6 months later and doing far better than the other band that I could have joined. Getting gigs was no problem as me and the guitarist were gigging regularly in other bands and I could have a big say in the material and impose my own view on playing standards etc, which I probably could not have dome coming in as the new guy in an established band.

If you have got the right people involved and you have some contacts, a start-up band can be just as feasible as an established one and you will have more opportunities to ensure that things are done how you want them to be…

[blue]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1442356268' post='2866391']
Personally I wouldn’t be so against doing a start-up band.

About 18 months ago I was asked to join an established local rock covers band that gets plenty of local gigs. Even though they’re an OK band, I wasn’t particularly bothered and passed. Instead I accepted an invitation to join a start-up band (doing broadly similar stuff) with a couple of guys who I knew could play. It took a bit of time to get off the ground but we were gigging about 6 months later and doing far better than the other band that I could have joined. Getting gigs was no problem as me and the guitarist were gigging regularly in other bands and I could have a big say in the material and impose my own view on playing standards etc, which I probably could not have dome coming in as the new guy in an established band.

If you have got the right people involved and you have some contacts, a start-up band can be just as feasible as an established one and you will have more opportunities to ensure that things are done how you want them to be…
[/quote]

Good story Pete and your lucky. Sounds like you found a rare and good opportunity.

Again, very cool. Most start ups aren't together long enough to see their 1st gig.

Blue

[peteb]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1442359305' post='2866410']


Good story Pete and your lucky. Sounds like you found a rare and good opportunity.

Again, very cool. Most start ups aren't together long enough to see their 1st gig.

Blue
[/quote]
Of course it helps if you're dealing with the right people with a start-up as it does with any band. In music, contacts are everything...

[blue]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1442362444' post='2866422']
Of course it helps if you're dealing with the right people with a start-up as it does with any band. In music, contacts are everything...
[/quote]

Yup, that comes with experience and the ability to network. Good contacts and being able to size up people and an opportunity on the fly.

A lot of young guys new to bands don't necessarily have those things in place. I guess you have to [i]"go through it to get to it"[/i]. I did. LOL

Blue

[gjones]

Commitment is what I look for. If band members won't put the hours in to rehearse a set so it can be played well, then I'm not interested.

I'm too long in the tooth to be seen playing with the equivalent of a school band.

[blue]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1442371730' post='2866428']
Commitment is what I look for. If band members won't put the hours in to rehearse a set so it can be played well, then I'm not interested.

I'm too long in the tooth to be seen playing with the equivalent of a school band.
[/quote]

I am not sure I can tie commitment directly to rehearsing. There are many really good bands with totally committed members that hardly ever rehearse.

Blue

[peteb]

Ideally you want guys who can put a set together without needing too much rehearsing...

[JTUK]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1442359305' post='2866410']
Good story Pete and your lucky. Sounds like you found a rare and good opportunity.

Again, very cool. Most start ups aren't together long enough to see their 1st gig.

Blue
[/quote]

But that is because of the people chosen .. and you learn who the dreamers are etc etc ...

We all started somewhere but as you've been doing it a good few years, you know who to stear clear of.

Track record can be quite key here...
Of course, not the whole story, but you get to know who can do a good job for you and who can't..

If I need to check someone out...I'll prorbaly go and see them as this tells me everything-pretty much- musically-
and then I ask my muso 'mates' to and see what they say.
Then we might go to a musical meeting/rehearsal and see what chemistry we have..
Once that works... we see what every wants to do work-load/commitment wise and then AN business.

But, once the chemistry has been sorted, you'll find the enthusiasm picks up quite a lot.

The other way to do it is pick a standard set..ring everyone up and do the gig on friday...
The problem with that is the standard sets can get very 'tiresome'...

I've just recently done the latter and lucked out when the set included stuff by Bobby Bland and Fred Wesley..and it went down a storm as it was so damn funky..and FUN. And as for standards, I think I know a few... but when I was going thru the set list, I hadn't played 90% of them and never heard of over 50%..???... but the band leader was so good it was a cake walk. Can't wait to do it again tbh. Killer Delta funk IMO.

[neepheid]

I haven't given up, but I've thought about it. What makes me want to give up? The apathy these days. Maybe we don't help ourselves by being terrible at self promotion, but I am trying and I'm getting pretty sick and tired of being habitually ignored by venues, promoters, bloggers and anyone else who I contact in order to try and get gigs or just a bit of feedback. That's what grinds me down and makes me think we must be rubbish or something.

BTW, thanks to the couple of folk who have had a listen to our EP on here and been sufficiently moved to write something about it, it really means a lot, it keeps me wanting to play and write songs. Cheers

[TimR]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1442319887' post='2865996']


I definitely care about all those things... massively.

The only point I don't care about..because I don't need to, is gigs. I will do gigs but I'm not wasting my time or the other guys time on
gigs of a certain nature or even stature.

It is either a good gig or it is not. Funnily enough the other guys, who should be more picky about the work they do...because of the work they can get and indeed do get....aren't or can't be as picky.

Basically, I wont waste their time for gigs that don't pay minimum £80 per head. I suspect they may go cheaper from time to time..and have to, but I'll generally not call these guys for that money. That is a basic 4 pub for a 4 piece..it gets much harder introducing a 5th member.
Parties, which is what the band excels at, are easy
[/quote]

But you and Blue are looking at this from different points of view.

You're running a band and he is 'just' a hired hand.

From my point of view having been in both situations it's nice to just turn up and play what you're told to play. Put your trust in the band leader.

I'm very flexible, I've played in everything from Thrash metal bands, through party bands and am dram pit work. To me a song is a song, most of them are 3minutes long and don't take hours to learn. Really it's all about being entertaining and playing live for me.

From a band leader point of view, I'd want people like me. That can learn quickly, don't moan that it's a boring song that's been done to death, or that they're not getting as much this week as last week etc.

I kind of agree that a band doesn't really work as a free democracy but really has to be run as a benevolent dictatorship, or as a strict democracy with an elected leader who has the final say on everything.

Edited September 16, 2015 by TimR

[chris_b]

I'm fine with a band being a total dictatorship. I was in one of those a few years ago.

The good players, interesting set and considerable amounts of dosh made it all worthwhile.

I've found that if you respect the fact that it's not your band most band leaders are open to positive and helpful suggestions.

[JTUK]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442402839' post='2866644']
But you and Blue are looking at this from different points of view.

You're running a band and he is 'just' a hired hand.

From my point of view having been in both situations it's nice to just turn up and play what you're told to play. Put your trust in the band leader.

I'm very flexible, I've played in everything from Thrash metal bands, through party bands and am dram pit work. To me a song is a song, most of them are 3minutes long and don't take hours to learn. Really it's all about being entertaining and playing live for me.

From a band leader point of view, I'd want people like me. That can learn quickly, don't moan that it's a boring song that's been done to death, or that they're not getting as much this week as last week etc.

I kind of agree that a band doesn't really work as a free democracy but really has to be run as a benevolent dictatorship, or as a strict democracy with an elected leader who has the final say on everything.
[/quote]

I'd have those thoughts if a hired hand as well... but true, I wouldn't be just a hired hand, I'd want input.
Deps are different,

And in the example I quoted, all I did was take the date... I made a call to a mate who suggested so and so.
Because so and so came with a set and that would max the money between 4 rather than 5... we then just decided
who the drummer should be.

Because these guys know the score...it was a about as easy as it could be..the playing was a bit of a roasting, in its way...
but there was a lot of chat and direction thru the songs. All in all, the gig was a stormer..!!

So..it was my gig but we had two other MD's on it... Since it was my gig, I named the band.

For me...I have to like it and rate it..otherwise it is a job and I'll take it or leave it.
For good or bad... I find my sh** level is high, so it needs to really register with me or I can't be interested much.

Sometimes a new gig with new people is enough.. but then once might be enough as well.

I think I need to keep it like this otherwise I'll burn out again... and I don't want to do that..

[Marvin]

The people and material have got to be right for me. I'd rather not play than be in a band with time wasters and/or playing material I dislike.

I recently turned down a busy band because the drummer is shockingly bad and the set they play was dreadful. That's not enjoyment and it's also burning good money in rehearsal fees and petrol.

[lowhand_mike]

got to say i'm just glad to be playing, i still love doing the gigs after 7 years of playing pretty much the same stuff, we tweek the set pretty constantly but theres stuff that never gets dropped, we are going through a struggle at the moment as our drummer has taken a job that means he can only rehearse on a sunday (rather than the tuesday nights we used to do) and our singer due to family commitments can only do every other sunday. but i still love the practice as its the only time other than gigs that i pick up my bass as i have no time at home to practice much. Funny thing is this year has eaasily been our busiest to date and we already have booking for next year, just wish we could keep this upward curve going.
i think ive been lucky in that the guys i play with are all great blokes first and foremost, and good musicians too, i can play most songs given time to practice them which gets me by and thats enough for me. I'd love to be playing a gig a week (the wife wouldnt) but thats not going to happen as we just cant get our promotional sh*t together.
So if anyone has any advice on actually getting gigs (and we have been asked why we arent playing more places(which is nice)) that would be cool

[gjones]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1442388249' post='2866473']
I am not sure I can tie commitment directly to rehearsing. There are many really good bands with totally committed members that hardly ever rehearse.

Blue
[/quote]

I meant commitment to being as good a band as they can be. It doesn't matter how good the musicians in a band are, rehearsals of song arrangements will always make the songs sound better.

Being professional doesn't just mean being paid to play. Some of the best paying gigs I've played were shockingly unprepared and shambolic. I felt embarrassed to take the money(but I did )

[blue]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442402839' post='2866644']
But you and Blue are looking at this from different points of view.

You're running a band and he is 'just' a hired hand.

From my point of view having been in both situations it's nice to just turn up and play what you're told to play. Put your trust in the band leader.

I'm very flexible, I've played in everything from Thrash metal bands, through party bands and am dram pit work. To me a song is a song, most of them are 3minutes long and don't take hours to learn. Really it's all about being entertaining and playing live for me.

From a band leader point of view, I'd want people like me. That can learn quickly, don't moan that it's a boring song that's been done to death, or that they're not getting as much this week as last week etc.

I kind of agree that a band doesn't really work as a free democracy but really has to be run as a benevolent dictatorship, or as a strict democracy with an elected leader who has the final say on everything.
[/quote]

Yes, your right about all that. It get back to that knowing what you want and what your skills are. In other words, what can I deliver.

I know I'm not a band leader or front person. I sing and play bass. Hell, I don't even like calling songs. We have a band leader for all that stuff.

Our band leader is half my age and you know what I finally realized and came to terms with. While I have years of band experience, her experience is more relevant than mine. It's 2015, for efs sake ,you can't do things or run a band like it was 1975.

BTW, I been gigging with my 51 MIJ Fender P re-issue lately. I took that black pick guard off. I think it looks a lot cooler without it.

I also started bringing a combo to small gigs instead of my big GK stacked rig. I can use the shoulder strap for my pedal board case, bass in one hand and the combo in the other. That's a 1 trip "load in" for me. I love it.

Blue

Edited September 16, 2015 by blue

[blue]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1442389129' post='2866494']
Ideally you want guys who can put a set together without needing too much rehearsing...
[/quote]

Yes, exactly and especially for bands that have been together with the same members for years.. If your lucky enough to be booked Fri-Sun, you don't want to schedule a rehearsal.

I always say, just que the breaks and tell me what key your in and I can pick up on and follow the chord progression. Easy to do for 70s style blues/rock.

Blue

Edited September 16, 2015 by blue

[blue]

[quote name='lowhand_mike' timestamp='1442425379' post='2866901']
I'd love to be playing a gig a week (the wife wouldnt) but thats not going to happen as we just cant get our promotional sh*t together.
So if anyone has any advice on actually getting gigs (and we have been asked why we arent playing more places(which is nice)) that would be cool
[/quote]

We play around 75 shows a year. but that's mainly existing business getting new business is what's tough for most gigging bands. We finally breaking into the local Harley Davidson hierarchy. You guys do know Harley is headquartered here in Milwaukee. They sponsor a sh*t load of events.

Blue

[PaulWarning]

everybody has faults, some peoples you can put up with some you can't, some people have faults that nobody can put up with, but the older you get the more diplomatic you become, well I have anyway

[TimR]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1442427883' post='2866930']


Yes, your right about all that. It get back to that knowing what you want and what your skills are. In other words, what can I deliver.

I know I'm not a band leader or front person. I sing and play bass. Hell, I don't even like calling songs. We have a band leader for all that stuff.

Our band leader is half my age and you know what I finally realized and came to terms with. While I have years of band experience, her experience is more relevant than mine. It's 2015, for efs sake ,you can't do things or run a band like it was 1975.

BTW, I been gigging with my 51 MIJ Fender P re-issue lately. I took that black pick guard off. I think it looks a lot cooler without it.

I also started bringing a combo to small gigs instead of my big GK stacked rig. I can use the shoulder strap for my pedal board case, bass in one hand and the combo in the other. That's a 1 trip "load in" for me. I love it.

Blue
[/quote]

You've edited your post since I first read it and added some things I'll comment on.

Age is an attitude. You carry it off very well. I guess you dye your hair but as far as an audience are concerned you move and rock and carry it off with attitude and from 20ft you're the same as the other guys.

But you're old enough to know when someone knows what they're talking about and not just bull....img. You know when to let go and trust someone else. That's not just an age thing, that's a maturity thing.

The easy route is to play Beatles and Stones to people your own age. It works, but for me that was three years of my life that I really enjoyed but I've moved on.

I've done three years in my latest band - Classic Rock, we're getting gigs and people are asking us to play more so I'm happy living in this moment.

But again - it's flexibility and commitment. When I'm bored or it stops working I'll move on. I have no idea what I'll move on to. Just as long as it is entertaining to an audience (just not corporate functions, they don't pay enough for me to give up my day job and sell my soul )

[blue]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1442416146' post='2866814']

For me...I have to like it and rate it..otherwise it is a job
[/quote]

I joined my band for years ago because it was a job, a paying job. Not wishing well of creativity.

Now, while it's a job, it's a very fun job.

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442446470' post='2867105']
You've edited your post since I first read it and added some things I'll comment on.

Age is an attitude. You carry it off very well. I guess you dye your hair but as far as an audience are concerned you move and rock and carry it off with attitude and from 20ft you're the same as the other guys.

But you're old enough to know when someone knows what they're talking about and not just bull....img. You know when to let go and trust someone else. That's not just an age thing, that's a maturity thing.

The easy route is to play Beatles and Stones to people your own age. It works, but for me that was three years of my life that I really enjoyed but I've moved on.

I've done three years in my latest band - Classic Rock, we're getting gigs and people are asking us to play more so I'm happy living in this moment.

But again - it's flexibility and commitment. When I'm bored or it stops working I'll move on. I have no idea what I'll move on to. Just as long as it is entertaining to an audience (just not corporate functions, they don't pay enough for me to give up my day job and sell my soul )
[/quote]

Hey thanks,

You know, I still can't believe how lucky I am. Finding a band that makes good money playing the same 70s style hard rock and blues I grew up with and played back in the 60s & 70s. And lead by a 29 year old lead guitarist, singer song writer.

We get a really nice response to the material we present. Stuff like [i]"Street Corner Talking"[/i] Savoy Brown and [i]"Oh Well"[/i] by your Peter Greene to name a few. BTW, were bring back "Along The Watch Tower"(Hendrix Version). Just stuff that's really fun to play and you can always mix it up as a bass player and making the bass lines hip and groovy.

I think because we gig a lot people think were a traditional cover band. No, they just did a great job of figuring out this 60 plus niche market. A lot of the 60 plus folks are out there still trying to party.

My hair, I have had it professionally dyed since I was 40. I would imagine it's all grey now.

Blue

Edited September 17, 2015 by blue

[leftybassman392]

Best band I ever played in was also the last band I ever played in (a modern jazz/fusion outfit - Govan/Stern et. al.). Composed entirely of music professionals just looking for an opportunity to have a bit of a blow away from their main activity. Everybody knew their role very precisely, nobody got in anybody's way (either musically or personally), egos got parked at the door during rehearsals; and as luck would have it we all got on really well. Everything was done for the good of the band. One of those situations that some musicians spend a lifetime fantasizing about.

Unfortunately just as we were really getting going I was forced to quit for medical reasons. Took me some time to get over that one if I'm honest. These days I live in fairly contented retirement, but I do still think about it from time to time.

Edited September 17, 2015 by leftybassman392