The Guys That Give Up, Why?

[TimR]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1442920462' post='2870480']


Why not?

These guys are giving punters what they want; a voice, a melody and a familiar song.
[/quote]

If that's what they want then not only are you not competing with them, you can't compete with them.

Personally I find it awful and would go and do something else. I certainly wouldn't go out specifically to see that.

So in my sample of one, a live band is not competing for my attention. It's like football, put it on the big screen and I'll walk out of the pub and go somewhere else.

So I guess as far as 'competition' goes they're actually losing my trade. They may of course attract ten other people which is fine by me.

We're all different and saying that a singer is competing with a band just isn't direct competition.

[TimR]

I was talking to our band leader last night about how he gets the pub gigs.

He says you have to call them around 20times before they'll put you in the diary. Generally not because they don't want you to play, but because when he calls it's not convenient.

It's no suprise that pubs go under, good landlords with a business head are very hard to find.

In a number of the pubs we play, we never meet the landlord. The ones we do, we get a date for our next gig at the end of the night. This is why it appears that the circuit is closed to new bands.

I can see how this would get tiring. Being told by punters and bar staff that you're one of the best bands they've seen and then not being able to convert that into more gigs is frustrating.

[TimR]

The clubs were done via and agent, which meant we got decent pay, but there was no raport with the final customer. We just got told where to stand and when to play. The audience were good but being treated like 'staff' wasn't part of the deal.

[JTUK]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442921529' post='2870495']
I was talking to our band leader last night about how he gets the pub gigs.

He says you have to call them around 20times before they'll put you in the diary. Generally not because they don't want you to play, but because when he calls it's not convenient.

It's no suprise that pubs go under, good landlords with a business head are very hard to find.

In a number of the pubs we play, we never meet the landlord. The ones we do, we get a date for our next gig at the end of the night. This is why it appears that the circuit is closed to new bands.

I can see how this would get tiring. Being told by punters and bar staff that you're one of the best bands they've seen and then not being able to convert that into more gigs is frustrating.
[/quote]

I go to a pub I think would be suitable... it has either been recommended to me..so I research it, or I've been there/played it.
I'll establish contact..maybe by FB..and let them see a few reviews and then let them come back to me.
The proactive ones...will have their ears to the ground anyway..and will know something about you.
Either they know the reputation of the ppl in the band or they know the band.

So..we've done our homework and they've done theirs.

I would 'hope' that we have a decent enough reputation to open up a few doors but I'm not above giving it the
big spiel IF I think we can live up to it. Tbh, I prefer to undersell and walk away with plaudits than go in all guns blazing.

To people I know... I like to think they trust my judgement. If I tell them this is a band they must see, they believe me..
but by the same token, I'll also say, this is NOT the band for you. But..I have to be honest...that wouldn't be my band.

Overall, I think it works. The trick is to get ppl to ask you to do gigs... rather than have to hussle them, IMO.

[TimR]

Which is why it can be hard to get your foot in the door.

[JTUK]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442926639' post='2870589']
Which is why it can be hard to get your foot in the door.
[/quote]

I'm kind of all for that, tbh... If you can't 'force' your way in... you possible have to look at yourselves
and ask why..?

I don't really believe any LL would turn down the best bands..and you can measure that in 2 ways.
You are the best musically and/or you are the best from a draw POV. But if they did, I'd be thinking
that isn't the sort of LL/venue you should be playing anyway... assuming you fit the criteria.

In reality, there are only about 4-5 'best bands' anyway... so the LL can't hang out for best-best..

[peteb]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1442911988' post='2870365']


Exactly.

Sad I know, but I get a kick out of every part, from putting the gigs in the diary and loading the car and driving to the gig. When people say "worst part of the night" at the end, it isn't for me. I love the load out etc. It means I've done a gig. Of course I'd prefer to be playing with Clapton at the Albert Hall, but I love doing good gigs and, as long as I play well, I'll take a bad gig over a night watching TV any time.

The worst part about gigging for me is waiting for the next one.
[/quote]
I kinda know what you mean. I don't mind breaking gear down and the load out at the end of the night and sometimes I quite appreciate the motorway drive home, knowing that you have just done a decent gig. What I don't like is having to get up to go to the office the next morning!

Also, as much as I appreciate the odd weekend off, two gigs a month is not enough for me. If nothing else, I know that my playing is a lot better when I'm gigging regularly...

[xgsjx]

I gave up because bass was taking up everything & was becoming an obsession. All I could focus on was what to do with bass & it was becoming too much of an idol.

Something that tipped it as well was that I was getting frustrated at inadequate musicians. Trying to get a band that could play in time & not want to cover crap songs was hard work!

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1442335977' post='2866173']
More people should quit.
[/quote]

Exactly! Too may useless time wasters clogging up the wanted ads.

[chris_b]

I live on the outskirts of London, but even so finding good bands is not easy, even here.

It must be disheartening to only find guys you don't want to play with.

[tauzero]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442919550' post='2870473']
The other point is that the social clubs don't have a band on every week. Each week it's a different act. So you're not competing with the Karaoke, or disco, you're working alongside. If you're playing a club three times a year, you're competing with four other bands. And the likelihood is that the other bands are playing a different set (or maybe not).

I can't believe anyone would go and watch solo singers singing to backing tracks week after week. Although I suspect we're looking at people who go to Spain for their holidays and read the Sun and eat fish and chips when they get there.
[/quote]

It used to be a live band every week. Gradually the karaoke acts have been moved in and the bands moved out. The people going to the clubs are there to meet their friends, to do bingo/raffle/members' draw/play your cards right/whatever, they're not there primarily for the band/karaoke singer. However, they do like their entertainment, and they prefer live bands to karaoke singers. The karaoke singers don't drive them away but they entertain them less.

[blue]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442926639' post='2870589']
Which is why it can be hard to get your foot in the door.
[/quote]

While it's hard, it also means bands trying to make money should be trying to get their foot in many doors.

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1442927081' post='2870599']
I'm kind of all for that, tbh... If you can't 'force' your way in... you possible have to look at yourselves
and ask why..?

I don't really believe any LL would turn down the best bands..and you can measure that in 2 ways.
You are the best musically and/or you are the best from a draw POV. But if they did, I'd be thinking
that isn't the sort of LL/venue you should be playing anyway... assuming you fit the criteria.

In reality, there are only about 4-5 'best bands' anyway... so the LL can't hang out for best-best..
[/quote]

The best band to a bar owner over here is the band that's playing when not only is the bar packed but the punters are buying alcohol at a premium rate all night.

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1442930467' post='2870648']
I gave up because bass was taking up everything & was becoming an obsession. All I could focus on was what to do with bass & it was becoming too much of an idol.

Something that tipped it as well was that I was getting frustrated at inadequate musicians. Trying to get a band that could play in time & not want to cover crap songs was hard work!
[/quote]

Those are issues we all have to deal with at some level. When did you get in the game and how long were you in it before everything tipped?

BTW, I think trying to start a band is only for a select few. Me, I'm a bass guitar player not a band leader.

Blue

[TimR]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1442932591' post='2870676']


While it's hard, it also means bands trying to make money should be trying to get their foot in many doors.

Blue
[/quote]

Well of course but you asked why people give up.

If you have to make 20calls to one person just to get one gig. To fill your diary you'll have to make 1000 calls to the successful gigs and that quickly escalates when you start counting calls to venues where you don't get gigs.

I'm with JTUK. You select a decent local pub that does music well and has a good landlord and you target it. The nights you play, you make sure all your friends come.

Yet again success in life is about how many friends you make. Friends bring friends and they come back within more friends if you're good. . From there the function gigs should start rolling in. I'm not sure there's a lot of mileage just doing pub gigs in the UK unless you only want to play occasionally in a hobby band.

Which is kind of making the thread a bit circular again.

.

Edited September 22, 2015 by TimR

[blue]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1442930712' post='2870650']
I live on the outskirts of London, but even so finding good bands is not easy, even here.

It must be disheartening to only find guys you don't want to play with.
[/quote]

Where you live, your network and how much you are willing to put into finding the right band are all factors in attaining a positive band experience. I have a buddy that complains all the time about the lack of opportunity and he has a point. However, when I ask him who he has followed up with or how many auditions he has done, his answer is always nobody and none.

Blue

[xgsjx]

I've been playing music since I was a kid. Took up bass when I was 13 & played in quite a few bands. The last good band I was in was fun & had really good musicians. Unfortunately the singer took a stroke, the drummer moved abroad & I never see the other guys.
That was a good few years back. I tried to get a band up here in Perth, but found it very hard to get any actual musicians. Plenty folk who play metal on a guitar or sing at the karaoke wanting to join, but none who actually know much about music, being in a band or able to play at a decent level.
I stopped last year. I'd already quite trying to get a band that could gig a few months before I decided to give up being a bassist.
I'm still a musician, but everything I do is at home & for the past few months, it's just been using computer instruments.

Funnily enough, a chap at work has asked if I want to play bass in a band he is starting that is just for fun & probably not to gig. We're gonna give it a blast next week. I've no gear apart from my bass (sold the lot, most on here), but the rooms are plug n play.

[blue]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442933553' post='2870690']
Well of course but you asked why people give up.

If you have to make 20calls to one person just to get one gig. To fill your diary you'll have to make 1000 calls to the successful gigs and that quickly escalates when you start counting calls to venues where you don't get gigs.

I'm with JTUK. You select a decent local pub that does music well and has a good landlord and you target it. The nights you play, you make sure all your friends come.

Yet again success in life is about how many friends you make. Friends bring friends and they come back within more friends if you're good. . From there the function gigs should start rolling in. I'm not sure there's a lot of mileage just doing pub gigs in the UK unless you only want to play occasionally in a hobby band.

Which is kind of making the thread a bit circular again.

.
[/quote]

Well, I think we have established the bar band business in the states is more lucrative than the pub band business in the States. I think you really have to understand that none of this happens over night. Another thing if you truly don't treat your band like a job and run it like a business your traveling down a rough road.

It takes time for a business to grow and your brand to get known. While my band's bread and butter is with repeat or existing business it took 9 years for our phones to start ringing than the other way around. A lot of people wouldn't put 9 years into a bar band. In our case it paid off.

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1442933773' post='2870694']
I've been playing music since I was a kid. Took up bass when I was 13 & played in quite a few bands. The last good band I was in was fun & had really good musicians. Unfortunately the singer took a stroke, the drummer moved abroad & I never see the other guys.
That was a good few years back. I tried to get a band up here in Perth, but found it very hard to get any actual musicians. Plenty folk who play metal on a guitar or sing at the karaoke wanting to join, but none who actually know much about music, being in a band or able to play at a decent level.
I stopped last year. I'd already quite trying to get a band that could gig a few months before I decided to give up being a bassist.
I'm still a musician, but everything I do is at home & for the past few months, it's just been using computer instruments.

Funnily enough, a chap at work has asked if I want to play bass in a band he is starting that is just for fun & probably not to gig. We're gonna give it a blast next week. I've no gear apart from my bass (sold the lot, most on here), but the rooms are plug n play.
[/quote]

A few here no a little about my history. For me that would not work, gigs are what makes it fun for me. No gigs, to me means no fun.

A good example of how tough it is for folks that live in areas where good musicians that understand the local band business are almost impossible to find.

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1442906876' post='2870313']
I read an interview with Leland Sklar last night where he said that he still gets excited when gets a call for a live gig, 'even in a bar'! So after playing some of the biggest gigs in the business, Sklar still looks forward to a local bar gig!
[/quote]

Very cool, I've had the opportunity to see a few big stars playing in bars. I love it.

Me, when my phone chimes for email and the heading is "New Gig", I'm in heaven.

BTW, Leland is from my neck of the woods, Milwaukee WI.

Blue

Edited September 22, 2015 by blue

[TimR]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1442934066' post='2870700']


Well, I think we have established the bar band business in the states is more lucrative than the pub band business in the States. I think you really have to understand that none of this happens over night. Another thing if you truly don't treat your band like a job and run it like a business your traveling down a rough road.

It takes time for a business to grow and your brand to get known. While my band's bread and butter is with repeat or existing business it took 9 years for our phones to start ringing than the other way around. A lot of people wouldn't put 9 years into a bar band. In our case it paid off.

Blue
[/quote]

So there you have it. 9 years of work to earn £60 a week.

Well worth it.

[blue]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442937248' post='2870766']
So there you have it. 9 years of work to earn £60 a week.

Well worth it.
[/quote]

Where did you get that figure from? LOL I'm not rich but 60.00 a week is not even close to what I make.

Again, it's not a lot, I think it's a round 12K a year.Which I believe is well over the top range for bar bands. And remember we paid at a much higher rate during festival and fair season. Keep in mind I'm retired and single so the claims I can make would be tough for those still in their prime working years

For me, definitely worth it. If you asked me to swap it for a 60k corporate office job I'd say, " I'll pass ".

Blue

[JTUK]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1442932794' post='2870678']
The best band to a bar owner over here is the band that's playing when not only is the bar packed but the punters are buying alcohol at a premium rate all night.

Blue
[/quote]
Agree..and even tho I don't always agree with that criteria... I do get the importance of it, of course.

[JTUK]

I thought U.S bar bands and pub bands were the same gig in the U.S...?

Over here... people who want fun do pubs and parties, people who want money do functions and weddings..typically
Of course, they can be both, fun and lucrative..and that is what I aim for.

[TimR]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1442939046' post='2870785']


Where did you get that figure from? LOL I'm not rich but 60.00 a week is not even close to what I make.

Again, it's not a lot, I think it's a round 12K a year.Which I believe is well over the top range for bar bands. And remember we paid at a much higher rate during festival and fair season. Keep in mind I'm retired and single so the claims I can make would be tough for those still in their prime working years

For me, definitely worth it. If you asked me to swap it for a 60k corporate office job I'd say, " I'll pass ".

Blue
[/quote]

Ok. From earlier where you said $100 a man minimum. But I see you're doing 3gigs a week and some gigs playing $500.

That's professional level gigging. Certainly not pub band territory.

As we noted earlier over here you'd be a working mans club / party / function band. The working men's clubs are close to 3+ hours.

That's not entry level startup band territory. Although if you have musicians who've played in bands before, like JTUK says, it could be a band put together. But then you'd be using people who haven't given up.

Strange thread.