I downsized but then upsized again!

[dave74200]

About 10 years ago I had an SVT 2 Pro and SVT 810 cab. Although I loved it, I gradually downsized it, after seeing that's what everyone else was doing, and ended up with an Orange Bass Terror and Genz Benz neo 2x12 (with a VT bass pedal to add grit). Really lightweight and I could carry it to the car in one trip. The snag was, although it sounded great, I always felt something was missing so gradually upsized to my current rig of, SVT 2 Pro and SVT 410 HLF. When I now play through this rig, I can clearly hear what I was missing. There just seems to be something that much of the lightweight gear cannot produce, no matter how good it is.

Perhaps it's just me and I know that all this is just my opinion, but I was wondering if anyone else on here has had a similar experience?

For me, this is my ideal set up and I've promised myself that no matter how heavy it may be, it's never going in the for sale section!

[Roland Rock]

Yes, it has been debated often on the forum.

I'm in the same position in that I went class D for a while, but eventually went back to heavy stuff as something was just not there.
Never say never though - the technology is improving all the time, and we're just starting to see the next generation of class D power amps.

[JTUK]

^^yep.

Edited September 17, 2015 by JTUK

[CamdenRob]

I don't have a choice... I travel to gigs, rehearsals,recordings etc on public transport so a 210 on a trolly and a class D is all I can manage. To be honest 19 gigs out of 20 I'm DId straight into the house PA anyway and my rig is just a monitor.

[dave74200]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1442522332' post='2867606']
I don't have a choice... I travel to gigs, rehearsals,recordings etc on public transport so a 210 on a trolly and a class D is all I can manage. To be honest 19 gigs out of 20 I'm DId straight into the house PA anyway and my rig is just a monitor.
[/quote]

I can totally understand that buddy and I'd do the same if in your position.

[Lozz196]

I`ve had lightweight amps for a good few years, and been very satisfied with them. But I used - and heard many using - a full Ampeg stack at a festival, so decided I needed an Ampeg, so the heaviest Ampeg I could carry was an SVT3-PRO. Now it`s not a full valve amp, but the depth of sound is just more than any of the lightweight amps I`ve had. I`m sure an audience member wouldn`t notice the difference, but even our singer/guitarist has mentioned to me that the bass seems a lot fuller now - and his regular comment is that all basses/bass amps just go "boom". And I`m using pretty much the same settings/frequencies. So daftly, I`m having to cut a bit of low-end so as to not bulk the sound out too much - or at least I`m doing this at rehearsals, will probably just keep lows flat at gigs, just to add a bit of heft.

[dave74200]

I had a 3 pro and although it was great, the 2 pro is greater!

[discreet]

I am doing the lightweight thing, but also suspect it's not all it's cracked up to be. I don't think there's anything inherently 'wrong' with Class D for example, but I think the B&O ICEpower unit often used is for general audio applications and is not specifically intended for bass amp use.

On another note, I attended an audition today and oh joy, there was an Ampeg SVT and 8X10 in the room - it sounded totally fantastic.

Edited September 17, 2015 by discreet

[paul_5]

I've often contemplated moving to a lightweight rig (I even went Barefaced® this year), but haven't found anything that [i]feels[/i] as good as a big, half-ton head.

I've played through TC stuff, OBTs etc… but nothing has really had that 'wow' factor. My wife would like me to have a smaller amp, but ultimately sound is king. To quote Joe Meek "if it sounds right, it IS right"

[dave74200]

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1442526656' post='2867645']
I've often contemplated moving to a lightweight rig (I even went Barefaced® this year), but haven't found anything that [i]feels[/i] as good as a big, half-ton head.

I've played through TC stuff, OBTs etc… but nothing has really had that 'wow' factor. My wife would like me to have a smaller amp, but ultimately sound is king. To quote Joe Meek "if it sounds right, it IS right"
[/quote]

Amen!

[Lozz196]

[quote name='dave74200' timestamp='1442525111' post='2867629']
I had a 3 pro and although it was great, the 2 pro is greater!
[/quote]

Yeah, that`s an "if only I were 25 years younger without knackered back/limbs" situation though

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='dave74200' timestamp='1442523817' post='2867618']
I can totally understand that buddy and I'd do the same if in your position.
[/quote]

I do agree with you though...

I love my lightweight rig but if I had a van / someone to carry it I would have a full fat Glock rig instead.

[Ghost_Bass]

I'm one of the few that downsized to class-D/neo and had the exact opposite reaction. For me, the thing that lightweight rigs lack when comparing to big rigs is the exact same thing i allways struggled to get rid of in pubs/bars. In those small, crowded spaces the sub-lows are a pain in the a**e, they muddy the sound and find their way in to every mic on stage. Now i can play more comfortable, at lower volume settings and i can hear myself and be heard by the band with lots of definition and punch.

For outdoor gigs i still use the big rack

Edited September 18, 2015 by Ghost_Bass

[JTUK]

I don 't agree with the muddy sound... as that is just set-up and should be easiliy rectified..or not even a factor, imo,
but I do think some amps/rigs are too much for the pub.

I'm not taking a DB750 to a small pub...but then that is obvious if you've used one.

[Dan Dare]

I agree with Dave. I reckon the Ampeg 410 HLF is about the best compromise between welly and transportability (these things are relative, of course - it's still a bit of a beast, but is no 8x10 to carry). I've used one a few times and have always been impressed - my own rig is Ampeg 1x15 plus 2x10.

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1442612815' post='2868299']
I don 't agree with the muddy sound... as that is just set-up and should be easiliy rectified..or not even a factor, imo,
but I do think some amps/rigs are too much for the pub.

I'm not taking a DB750 to a small pub...but then that is obvious if you've used one.
[/quote]

Lacking better english vocabulary i used "muddy" but the main difference is that with SS amps/ceramic cabs on a pub i need to set the low-end back to prevent issues with on-stage sound and drum mics, with class-d/neo i can leave it flat, the low-end is more than enough and not overwelming (spelled right?). Less fuss while setting up and harder to have sound issues. It works for me!

Also, it's way easier to carry

Edited September 21, 2015 by Ghost_Bass

[JTUK]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1442842497' post='2869906']
Lacking better english vocabulary i used "muddy" but the main difference is that with SS amps/ceramic cabs on a pub i need to set the low-end back to prevent issues with on-stage sound and drum mics, with class-d/neo i can leave it flat, the low-end is more than enough and not overwelming (spelled right?). Less fuss while setting up and harder to have sound issues. It works for me!

Also, it's way easier to carry
[/quote]

Understand. And I'd do the same. Small stage/pub and poor load-in means light rig, Class D and lightweight ceramic cabs.
Big stage and good load in gets the full beans rig.

[brensabre79]

I have two heads, an all-valve one which sounds great, and a Class D one which also sounds great.
To me they're just different.
But... I went through a number of Class D heads before settling on this one, and they all had that 'something missing' quality to them. I was about ready to give up on Class D altogether, but Mykesbass on here brought his head to a gig and I was sold after 8 bars. I ordered mine the next day.

[Sparky Mark]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1442851009' post='2869997']
I have two heads, an all-valve one which sounds great, and a Class D one which also sounds great.
To me they're just different.
But... I went through a number of Class D heads before settling on this one, and they all had that 'something missing' quality to them. I was about ready to give up on Class D altogether, but Mykesbass on here brought his head to a gig and I was sold after 8 bars. I ordered mine the next day.
[/quote]
What class d head did you get?

[alexclaber]

When you go to big gigs, many of the huge touring PA systems use neo drivers throughout and class D amps are almost as popular. It isn't the magnet material or solidstate amplifier topology that matters, it's how good the design is.

Now if you're talking all-valve amps, with valve output stages and output transformers, they do indeed behave in ways that can't be perfectly simulated by anything else (though some fancy modelling comes pretty close). Nothing to stop you combining all-valve amps with lightweight cabs though! It is however hard to downsize significantly with valve amps because even the biggest are only 400W and most are less - and the smaller your speaker stack, the more power it needs to get loud.

[xroads]

I went mid-way: a large class-D PA poweramp with preamp, and 2 212 neo cabs.
Moves a lot of air, but is still easy to carry.
I believe with class-D amps the key is to double the watts compared to a conventional amp.

[Telebass]

As I'm using a Little Mark 2, I'm using analogue solid state, so middle ground.
Entirely happy with it.

[sk8]

I went through a lot of Class D lightweight heads and Neo cabs after deciding my Hiwatt 200 and Berg NV412 were too much and have now ended up with an Oranbe AD200b and OBC115. There is something about the weioght and heft it gives notes I've not had with any of my lightweight gear. Plus it seems to effortlessly fill a room with a great rumble!

[brensabre79]

[quote name='Sparky Mark' timestamp='1442912693' post='2870370']
What class d head did you get?
[/quote]
Carvin BX500 (in signature ) - they have 'improved' on this model now - but I've no desire to upgrade.
In terms of power, I've never had it above 9 o'clock on the Master volume, even in a large venue with only vocal PA. I couldn't imagine needing more, but I think my cab is probably helping a great deal with that too.