NAD - Behringer BVT4500H

[discreet]

[b]NAD - Behringer BVT4500H[/b]

[b]Blurb:[/b]
[url="http://www.music-group.com/Categories/Behringer/Bass/Bass-Head-Amplifiers/BVT4500H/p/P0521/Features"]http://www.music-gro.../P0521/Features[/url]

[b]Manual:[/b]
http://www.manualslib.com/manual/214204/Behringer-Ultrabass-Bvt4500h.html#manual

I am aware of the reputation that Behringer/Bugera have in certain quarters, including TalkBass, this very parish and basically all over teh internetz - however, this is a simple NAD thread, so I'd like to avoid it becoming the usual Behringer-thrashing exercise if possible, as I'll be doing that myself. Probably. Now read on:

The last two auditions I went to both had an Ampeg SVT350 bass amp available. This is the amp, along with the SVT450, that looks like a big SVT valve amp - but isn't. It's a Solid State amp and generally gets little love on the bass forums. I found it to be really quite good. Punchy, hefty and most un-SS like. Not valve-good... but good. The Behringer BVT4500H is supposedly a clone of the SVT450H and as Thomann are offering them for just £88 (including VAT and delivery to the UK), I felt I must get one - just to see what it's like.

First impressions: A big, heavy amp. But not as heavy as an all-valve amp. It looks a [i]lot [/i]like an Ampeg SVT and I have no doubt this is completely intentional, as is the very-similar-to-SVT 'BVT' designation. Without the Behringer badge, it would look exactly like an SVT on stage. However, more than half of the big case is empty. The amp is contained in a steel chassis in the top part of the amp. This seems nuts! But it does look very smart from a couple of feet away. Close inspection reveals not-great finishing and slightly flimsy controls which don't inspire too much confidence.

I heard a rumour that the BVT is a [i]doppelganger [/i]and is made on the same Chinese production line and using the same components as the SVT350/450 - but as the SVTs use a totally different preamp circuit, are rated using RMS and feature MOSFET power amps, that simply cannot be true. As far as I can tell, the BVT is a Frankenstein affair using off-the-shelf Behringer parts and with the company's tried-and-tested modular 300W power amp at its heart. There is also plenty of room for a large toroidal output transformer and I believe this is what gives the BVT its heft. It's certainly what gives it its weight, along with the MDF casing. There isn't a lot else of mass in the amp and there is quite a lot of empty space in the steel case as well as the MDF box. Most of it doesn't exist!! It's all smoke and mirrors! Chinese smoke, too! And the mirrors are plastic!!

The BVT passed the first test, in that the lights came on when I plugged it in and powered-up. So did the fan, which is a little noisy and always-on. With my passive P Bass plugged directly into the input socket and with the EQ section switched off, Pad switched off and Limiter switched off, and with Bass, Mid and Treble at 12 o'clock... it sounds not half bad, actually! But I had to have the gain way up to activate the Peak LED and the Master at 1200 too, which hints at not a lot of power or headroom. At home I never usually have any master at more than 0900. BUT, this is with the amp plugged into one of my BFM J12s (8ohms), so I'm assuming I'll get more beans with both BFM J12s, or my 4ohm Schroeder cab. It's a very punchy sound, and it seems slightly mid-biased. I can imagine this really cutting through a mix and sounding very good in a band situation. By the way, it sounds amazing with my Zoom B1on plugged into the front of it - but pretty much any amp does, so that's no real test. Though it says a lot for the B1on. Get one!

With the graphic EQ switched in, you can get a very wide range of sounds. I think anyone could get a usable sound out of it and for £88 delivered it's ridiculous. So is the fact it's disguised as a big valve amp and is largely empty. But considering it's made from odd bits and pieces from Behringer's parts bucket, it's quite ingenious. The decision to bung a big transformer in there is inspired, that's what really makes it work. The amp is rated at 450W @ 4ohms - this is a Peak rating. 450 x 0.707 = 318W RMS @ 4ohms. One of the major criticisms of Behringer is that they quote peak watts, not RMS watts. I think if you can read a spec sheet it doesn't matter. Watt ratings don't tell you how loud an amp is anyway and it's also about which cab (or cabs) you're using.

After I've had a few gym sessions, I'll take it to a rehearsal to see what it's like in a band situation. I think it'll be pretty good. I'd definitely take it to a gig - if it got beer spilled on it or it got damaged or nicked, I would care not a jot! And I really want to see if it has the balls for that job. I'll also stick my £25 Behringer BDI-21 SansAmp-alike preamp pedal in front of it too, which will improve matters no end.

In conclusion then, if you're expecting a proper pro Ampeg SVT for this kind of money you will be disappointed. But AT THE PRICE it's really quite a good thing, and if you could genuinely afford nothing else (or wanted to spend the minimum possible), it would mean the difference between a very usable (if unwieldy) bass amp - and nothing. But if I were in that situation I can't help feeling that I'd beg, borrow or steal a little bit more cash from somewhere and buy something better quality second-hand. Is it worth £88 inc VAT and delivery? For the shits and giggles alone, I'd say yes. Just don't take it on the bus.

Edited October 5, 2015 by discreet

[yorks5stringer]

Just a quick comment re the "made in the same factory as the SVT" rumour, I understood Behringer have invested mega Euros in their own Chinese production facility. There's a video showing it on the Behringer thread elsewhere in this Lounge.

Re the Amp, for the Bucks it seems you've got plenty of bangs and a 3 year Thomann guarantee!

As a money-saving aside, they have a B stock one at £73!

Edited September 22, 2015 by yorks5stringer

[CamdenRob]

Great review as always...

I had some behringer rack gear for a home studio in the 90s and it was great... Cost a fraction of stuff from other brands and did the job just fine.

It's reasuring to know, if everything went tits up for me financially I would still be able to gig with perfectly usable gear

[FuNkShUi]

Nice.
Has to be a bargain at £88 as long as it works surely?!

Edit to say ive always found Behringer stuff i've had great kit. Especially the newer stuff

Edited September 22, 2015 by FuNkShUi

[Beer of the Bass]

That's a huge box for what's inside! I would probably buy one as a stationary rehearsal room amp if I had a need for that though.

[yorks5stringer]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1442927024' post='2870596']
That's a huge box for what's inside! I would probably buy one as a stationary rehearsal room amp if I had a need for that though.
[/quote]

You could use the space not utilised in the Amp as a rehearsal room!

[discreet]

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1442927244' post='2870600']
You could use the space not utilised in the Amp as a rehearsal room!
[/quote]

[gary mac]

As always Discreet your review and photos are excellent, even if the amp turns out not to be

[discreet]

[quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1442928168' post='2870612']
As always Discreet your review and photos are excellent, even if the amp turns out not to be
[/quote]

Thanks... hey, I don't MAKE the stuff, I just comment on it!

[Naetharu]

Humm looks nice to be honest - I'm tempted with one for a back-up at that price. Might have to re-house it in a smaller case mind but all the same, at £88 it looks to be a total bargain.

[discreet]

[quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1442928755' post='2870620']
Humm looks nice to be honest - I'm tempted with one for a back-up at that price. Might have to re-house it in a smaller case mind but all the same, at £88 it looks to be a total bargain.
[/quote]

It probably is, if it doesn't go tits-up tomorrow. Time will tell.
Funny you should speak of re-housing... I was thinking of using the box for a [i]proper [/i]valve amp...

[Naetharu]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1442929411' post='2870632']
It probably is, if it doesn't go tits-up tomorrow. Time will tell.
Funny you should speak of re-housing... I was thinking of using the box for a [i]proper [/i]valve amp...
[/quote]

Sounds like a good plan, are you looking to build it from scratch yourself? I must admit building my own valve amp is on my 'to do' list one day when I have a bit more spare cash to chuck around.

[discreet]

[quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1442934664' post='2870711']
Sounds like a good plan, are you looking to build it from scratch yourself?
[/quote]

God no, I have no knowledge of electronics! It's a totally half-baked idea.
I imagined I could somehow shoehorn a valve power amp in there.

Edited September 22, 2015 by discreet

[chriswareham]

I thought Ampeg's stuff was made in Vietnam these days (apart from the US made "heritage" kit). If so that scuppers the idea these are made on the same production line as the SVT 450.

[discreet]

[quote name='chriswareham' timestamp='1442962960' post='2871049']
I thought Ampeg's stuff was made in Vietnam these days (apart from the US made "heritage" kit). If so that scuppers the idea these are made on the same production line as the SVT 450.
[/quote]

The idea was pretty much already scuppered in the OP, but thanks for the info.

[Thunderbird]

I have been using this very amp for 18 months now with no problems and it is tons better than the TC amp I had before it if you crank it up gosh it is loud I like the fact that it plays really nicely with my active basses too as IMO many amps do not like actives. This is a top notch bit of kit for the price but the downside is that it weighs about as much as a small planet lol. If I was gigging I would want some thing lighter, and as mentioned in Marks great review about the noisy fan this is something I am not getting with mine

Smashing review Mark

[lowhand_mike]

good review, been thinking of getting a backup amp for my ashdown and this fits the bill price wise, not entirely sure of the casing but handy space to keep your leads and bits i geuss

[CamdenRob]

Out of interest how heavy actually is it?

[discreet]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1443005614' post='2871310']
Out of interest how heavy actually is it?
[/quote]

21.5kg (47.5lb). The manual is [url="http://www.manualslib.com/manual/214204/Behringer-Ultrabass-Bvt4500h.html?page=12#manual"]here[/url].
Heavy compared with a lightweight Class D amp, but liftable. Bear in mind a big valve amp is nearer 35kg (77lb).

Edited September 23, 2015 by discreet

[discreet]

If (like me) you are a confirmed gear snob and really can't entertain the idea of appearing in public with a big Behringer amp, you could always buy a genuine OEM Ampeg cast badge from the USA and fit it to your BVT... then at least [i]some [/i]of your amp would be genuine Ampeg!



I think it looks quite smart, IF you can stand the mental trauma of being a total fraud...



I don't think I could cope with the deception, myself. Also, full-on Ampeg GAS has become way too much for me - I'm moving this amp on and have a genuine Ampeg SVT350H lined up. Round and round the gear carousel goes, where it will stop nobody knows!!

Naturally I will be posting 'NAD - Ampeg SVT350H' in due course.

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1443006144' post='2871317']
21.5kg (47.5lb). The manual is [url="http://www.manualslib.com/manual/214204/Behringer-Ultrabass-Bvt4500h.html?page=12#manual"]here[/url].
Heavy compared with a lightweight Class D amp, but liftable. Bear in mind a big valve amp is nearer 35kg (77lb).
[/quote]

That's about the weight all bass amps were until a few years ago... managable then

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1443007029' post='2871330']
If (like me) you are a confirmed gear snob and really can't entertain the idea of appearing in public with a big Behringer amp, you could always buy a genuine OEM Ampeg cast badge from the USA and fit it to your BVT... then at least [i]some [/i]of your amp would be genuine Ampeg!



I think it looks quite smart, IF you can stand the mental trauma of being a total fraud...



I don't think I could cope with the deception, myself. Also, full-on Ampeg GAS has become way too much for me - I'm moving this amp on and have a genuine Ampeg SVT350H lined up. Round and round the gear carousel goes, where it will stop nobody knows!!

Naturally I will be posting 'NAD - Ampeg SVT350H' in due course.
[/quote]

I suspect your Ampeg now contains the same amount of US made components as a regular one....

[Nuf]

I've got the same head. I've bought it through Musicstore at 55 Euros, and it's actually quite good.

My basses & cab are of a quite formidable quality, so I'm not sure how it behaves with mid-range instruments. However, I found it to be a really nice sounding amp, especially thanks to all the EQ possibilities you can have with it.

My only concerns are that:
- it priviledges the highs when the volume is turned up, but you can still manage it with the built in EQ,
- the sound gets really crappy if you clip the preamp,
- It's really heavy and takes a lot of space. However, if you take it out of the wooten shell, it weighs approximately... more or less 9 kgs or so (less than half of it's weight with the wooden box...).

Other than that... it's a really good amp, especially for the price I've paid.

[discreet]

[quote name='Nuf' timestamp='1443009198' post='2871365']
I've got the same head. I've bought it through Musicstore at 55 Euros, and it's actually quite good. My basses & cab are of a quite formidable quality, so I'm not sure how it behaves with mid-range instruments. However, I found it to be a really nice sounding amp, especially thanks to all the EQ possibilities you can have with it. My only concerns are that:
- it priviledges the highs when the volume is turned up, but you can still manage it with the built in EQ,
- the sound gets really crappy if you clip the preamp,
- It's really heavy and takes a lot of space. However, if you take it out of the wooten shell, it weighs approximately... more or less 9 kgs or so (less than half of it's weight with the wooden box...). Other than that... it's a really good amp, especially for the price I've paid.
[/quote]

Wow, that's around £40! And presumably a profit was still made! I've been ripped off!

I would absolutely agree with your list of concerns. And also agree that they can be acceptably managed without too much effort.

[Lozz196]

Following on from this thread, said amp is now mine, and have just used it at band practice. Impressions are good.

Ok, it`s not as full-sounding as the amps it`s imitating, but who would expect it to be. It`s also not as loud - into my Barefaced Super12T I needed the volume at 1 o`clock. On my similar powered Ampeg SVT3-PRO I need the volume at 9 o`clock.

But, these aren`t criticisms, they are observations. For the money these cost I think they are amazing. Sure they`re big & heavy, but for a brand new giggable amp for less than £90, well I can`t see how that`s a bad deal at all. This is my backup amp, it will stay sat in the corner of my bedroom and hopefully never need to be used. As such, having a reserve amp for under a ton, I`m laughing.