RickenFakers

[Happy Jack]

Subtle he ain't.

First time I've seen someone actually put "Lawsuit" in the title of a RickenFaker listing.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='313542' date='Oct 24 2008, 09:02 AM']Subtle he ain't.

First time I've seen someone actually put "Lawsuit" in the title of a RickenFaker listing. [/quote]

I beg to differ, young Sir:

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120320874412"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=120320874412[/url]

But no R-words. You don't need 'em to get pulled...

Anyway, his has a single rod (so it's not a Mat) & he's going to contact me [s]if[/s] when it gets pulled. I'd give him the £230 for it, since that's what he's prepared to accept if it gets no bids.

J.

[Mr. Foxen]

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ibanez-cimar-Familiar-70s-bass-copy-SUPERB_W0QQitemZ180301651131QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180301651131&_trkparms=39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A10|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14"]Another try[/url]

Edited October 24, 2008 by Mr. Foxen

[Bassassin]

And tonight, ladies and gentlemen, £325 will buy you a black neckthrough example, unbranded, but looking to be from the same stable as them there Shaftesbuggers & Cimars:

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=260306265955"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=260306265955[/url]

It's nice but a little bit steep, maybe.

J.

[warwickhunt]

So what's wrong with this Rickenbacker... [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Red-Rickenbacker-bass-guitar-and-hard-case_W0QQitemZ300271543124QQihZ020QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Red-Rickenbacker-bas...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]

[Dan_Q]

at first i thought that looked like a tokai rockinbetter, but they have thru necks don't they?

will be interested to hear from J on this one!

[Bassassin]

Bugger! Missed it! It's been removed so obviously had a whiff of dodgy about it - so what was it?

Jon.

[Dan_Q]

it was a fireglo bolt on neck copy with a rick TRC advertised as a real rick, no wonder it got pulled. lets hope it reappears under a different title.........

[Happy Jack]

Now this strangely familiar ...

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lemmy-bass-neckthru-Japan-vintage-copy-lawsuit-70s-MIJ_W0QQitemZ230304503513QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230304503513&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lemmy-bass-neckthru-...A1%7C240%3A1318[/url]

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='324933' date='Nov 8 2008, 07:09 PM']Now this strangely familiar ...

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lemmy-bass-neckthru-Japan-vintage-copy-lawsuit-70s-MIJ_W0QQitemZ230304503513QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230304503513&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lemmy-bass-neckthru-...A1%7C240%3A1318[/url]

[/quote]

Cheeky sod even used my text & pics without asking!

Anyway, I have no complaints - he paid me what he thought it was worth & was man enough not to whinge (as some do) when confronted with the stark reality...

Sadly his resale has been subject to the law of diminishing returns... :ph34r:

J.

[Clarky]

Hondo 1974 Rickenfaker on eBay (for now!)

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rickenbacker-4003-copy-Bass-Guitar-1974-Hondo-2_W0QQitemZ220309199891QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item220309199891&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rickenbacker-4003-co...A1%7C240%3A1318[/url]

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Clarky' post='325686' date='Nov 10 2008, 08:48 AM']Hondo 1974 Rickenfaker on eBay (for now!)

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rickenbacker-4003-copy-Bass-Guitar-1974-Hondo-2_W0QQitemZ220309199891QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item220309199891&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rickenbacker-4003-co...A1%7C240%3A1318[/url][/quote]
Quite nice in black - you can't see the plywood! Not entirely sure how he knows it's 1974...

There's a Shafty as well, this might be back for a second (or third) try:

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260313248054"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=260313248054[/url]

J.

[Bassassin]

I should perch this precariously on the top of the stack:

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150309633551"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=150309633551[/url]

One o' them Shaftesbury-branded 360/4005 hybrid things, either JapCrap or a rebadged Eko.

J.

[Bassassin]

And what do we think about this one? January 1998 Rickenbacker 4003? Does that make anyone else want to quote the famous Internet Owl?

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320318087892"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=320318087892[/url]

I'm undecided as to quite what it is, and quite what the seller thinks/knows it is. A copy with a real jackplate (which seems to decode to September 1973)? A real Rick with a lot of replacement/non-original parts? And not one single clear photograph of a detail which would confirm or deny its provenance. Ignorance, or artfully concealing camera work?

Your thought please, fellow cynics.

J.

[Happy Jack]

I'm going to put my cynicism on hold for this one.

1. He says he bought the bass "many years ago" while on tour in the States. Only a teenager could think of 1998 as being "many years ago".
2. He says the bass was already "beat up" when he bought it, and had possibly been partially re-sprayed at "some point in its history". Again, this description just can't be made to fit a bass made in Jan'98.
3. He includes a reasonable photo of the serial number, certainly good enough to allow discussion of the bass's age. He'd hardly do that if this was a scam.

Given a choice between cock-up and conspiracy, I'd go for cock-up. This is a typo.

I have to say that, looking at his listing, without your query it wouldn't have occurred to me that this might be a RickenFaker. I have a 4003 in JetGlo from 1984 and it doesn't look any more 'genuine' than this one.

[Bassassin]

It's not just the date though. The bridge is a copy - oval holes (real ones are more squared) and chrome saddles; the tuners are not standard Rick fittings - the shafts are too long & the ferrules too large; the strap buttons don't look like the knurled studs (same part as the mute adjusters) used on Ricks; it has the small gap between the neck pup & end of the neck. This would be right on a '73, but I think it would have a toaster pickup, not a hi-gain. And if it is a 73, it's likely it would have either checked binding or full-width inlays, maybe both. For a '73, it would be in very good cosmetic condition - a Rick of that age would likely have pretty worn finish on most contact areas.

He manages to not show clearly things that would confirm whether it is or isn't - the fretboard wood / inlays & original strap buttons are good ways of spotting copies from real ones. From what I can see, this could either be a real Rick rebuilt with a combination of genuine & copy parts - including the jackplate, or just a good copy - perhaps a late 70s/early 80s Jap market Greco, with a Rick jackplate & TRC.

Have I been spending too much time hanging around RickResource? :ph34r:

J.

[Happy Jack]

As ever, Jon, I am in awe. I actually own two vintage Ric's and I'd need to look at them good and hard to spot the differences you've noticed.

But wait ... maybe it's a prototype!

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='329325' date='Nov 14 2008, 06:27 PM']As ever, Jon, I am in awe. I actually own two vintage Ric's...[/quote]

You don't need [i]two[/i].

Being able to spot these differences is why they put up with me on RickResource!

J.

[jonsmith]

I'm not at home right now so I can't check my basses, but I'm pretty sure that in the 90s there were serials with one letter on the top and then digits on the bottom of the plate (my Chris Squire has a serial like this I think)*. If you key that serial in as M1 rather than MI, it does come up with Jan 1998, so I think that's how he's come up with that date. However that plate has a September 73 serial on it, starting MI. Jon, I don't know, but had CB and FWI possibly finished by September 73? Regardless, somehow this just doesn't look like a '73.

PS - Your knowledge of fakers is pretty useful - I think it probably will come in handy for RRF members from time to time.


EDIT (for accuracy): *Got home, 90s plates have one letter and one digit on top, with 4 digits below, e.g. D4 1234

Edited November 19, 2008 by jonsmith

[Musky]

I shot this guy an email requesting a couple of pictures, including one of the truss rod (sic). This is his reply - "Yeah, bit manic this end, If I get chance to get one done I will, but can confirm it has two (dual) truss rods!"

I can't help but wonder how 'manic' things are if he can't spare the 5/10 minutes it would take to remove the cover and upload the pictures, but if it is a copy at least it narrows things down to a Mat (I think! ).

I'll let you know if he forwards any pictures.

[Bassassin]

I'm kind of inclined to think it's not a copy - but it's had a number of new parts - the copy bridge, plus the pup surround looks brand new. It has what looks like a legit plexi TRC - which reads "Model 4001", which would be consistent with a '73. Speaking of which, he's updated the listing & is now saying it's a '73. Did a bit of revision last night & it's quite possible a Sept 73 might have small inlays, plain binding & higain pup - looks like these changes all happened earlier in the same year, but many later '73 basses are transitional & have one or more old features.

Hope he comes through with the truss rod pics - Rick ones are quite different to any copy I've seen & that would pretty much confirm it one way or t'other.

A great resource for spotting Fakers - and for general Rick minutiae - is [url="http://www.joeysbassnotes.com"]Joey's Bass Notes[/url], which unfortunately appears to be down right now. He has a comparison gallery of loads of different (and fascinating, if you're tragic like me) fakers & the differences & details. I'd love to know what some of them are.

J.

Edited November 16, 2008 by Bassassin

[Mr. Foxen]

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tokai-Bass_W0QQitemZ320318497918QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320318497918&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A10|39%3A1|240%3A1318"]Tokai[/url]

[beerdragon]

Rockinbetter's are made by Tokai then. i wondered who made them.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='beerdragon' post='330212' date='Nov 16 2008, 06:38 PM']Rockinbetter's are made by Tokai then. i wondered who made them.[/quote]
Are they? Go see if you can find any "official" connection.

J.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='330290' date='Nov 16 2008, 09:35 PM']Are they? Go see if you can find any "official" connection.

J.[/quote]

Proper webstores sell them as Tokai. Generally I don't check much harder than that. [url="http://www.themusicking.co.uk/tokai-rockinbetter-bass-guitar-sunburst"]Link[/url]

Course they might vanish again or something.