RickenFakers

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='782105' date='Mar 21 2010, 09:03 PM'][url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HONDO-ll-ELECTRIC-BASS-GUITAR-70s-lawsuit-japan-bass_W0QQitemZ190382668045QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item2c53b0f90d"]Argh, forgot what this was called.[/url][/quote]
It's a Horrible Hondo. Someone dropped lucky at the car boot, presumably, because he reckons he only got it today.

Looks pretty tidy.

J.

[Mr. Foxen]

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Indie-IRK-4-Classic-Shape-Bass-Guitar-Natural_W0QQitemZ200453505045QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item2eabf5c015"]Indie[/url]

[2x18]

A Ricky ???????

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rickenbacker-Bass-Guitar_W0QQitemZ180487498132QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item2a05e4a994"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rickenbacker-Bass-Gu...=item2a05e4a994[/url]

[Bassassin]

[quote name='2x18' post='789548' date='Mar 29 2010, 03:59 PM']A Ricky ???????

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rickenbacker-Bass-Guitar_W0QQitemZ180487498132QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item2a05e4a994"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rickenbacker-Bass-Gu...=item2a05e4a994[/url][/quote]
Yep - and the RickResource boys will be crying blood tears over that. It's a 4000 - set neck (not through neck) dot board, unbound, would originally just have had a single pickup. It's got a mix & match of real parts & not - the bridge is a copy part but the pickup's genuine, tuners don't look original. It's had a refin too, by the looks.

J.

[Soloshchenko]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='789645' date='Mar 29 2010, 05:22 PM'][b]Yep - and the RickResource boys will be crying blood tears over that[/b]. It's a 4000 - set neck (not through neck) dot board, unbound, would originally just have had a single pickup. It's got a mix & match of real parts & not - the bridge is a copy part but the pickup's genuine, tuners don't look original. It's had a refin too, by the looks.

J.[/quote]

And with good reason I'd say. That looks bloody awful. What the hell would possess a genuine Rick owner who could afford a ton of precisions to do such a thing is beyond me.

A terrible shame but with some TLC it might be possible to get the bass back to a fairly original condition. Actually, I've just been paid....

[Annoying Twit]

[quote]Fully renovated from a 1980s bass [b]using genuine Rickenbacker parts with new pickups, bridge and machine heads[/b]. Classic shape bass guitar with the unmistakable sustain and treble you only get from a Rickenbacker. Very good condition. There is a small chip to the top of the Large curve and also the small curve. There is a Green line about 2.1/2 " on the bottom of the back of the guitar.[/quote]

How can that Precision pickup be a "genuine Rickenbacker part"?

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' post='789762' date='Mar 29 2010, 06:57 PM']How can that Precision pickup be a "genuine Rickenbacker part"?[/quote]

The only parts I can see on that that are Rick bits are the bridge pickup (which is old enough that all the paint's worn off - original to the bass, probably) the pup surround & knobs. The bridge is a copy, the tuners aren't the Schallers fitted on modern 4003s & the scratchplate is a 2 or 3-ply - never fitted to Ricks.

Fortunately it would be very simple to at least aesthetically return this to original spec - you'd bin the p pup, its controls & the scratchplate, then just bung a 4000 scratchplate on it to cover whatever tunnelling & excavations have gone on under the plate.

J.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Bassassin

[Soloshchenko]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='789848' date='Mar 29 2010, 08:11 PM']The only parts I can see on that that are Rick bits are the bridge pickup (which is old enough that all the paint's worn off - original to the bass, probably) the pup surround & knobs. The bridge is a copy, the tuners aren't the Schallers fitted on modern 4003s & the scratchplate is a 2 or 3-ply - never fitted to Ricks.

Fortunately it would be very simple to at least aesthetically return this to original spec - you'd bin the p pup, its controls & the scratchplate, then just bung a 4000 scratchplate on it to cover whatever tunnelling & excavations have gone on under the plate.

J.[/quote]

It would be quite nice to stick a toaster in there where the PBass route is. I prefer neck PUs on these.

I'm getting tempted.

[Bassassin]

Wonder if this one will go for a bargain price? It's presently at £350 and has passed its reserve - this suggests to me that the seller isn't particularly sure it's genuine. Might go for a Faker price...

J.

[Soloshchenko]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='790440' date='Mar 30 2010, 11:48 AM']Wonder if this one will go for a bargain price? It's presently at £350 and has passed its reserve - this suggests to me that the seller isn't particularly sure it's genuine. Might go for a Faker price...

J.[/quote]

To be honest without your endorsement, I'd of said it's definately a fake. Weird pickup job, no serial number, weird colour, it just looks a bit odd to be genuine. However I probably know I fraction of what you do so it clearly is 100% real.

Purely out of interest, what first indicated to you this one is the real deal?

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Soloshchenko' post='790796' date='Mar 30 2010, 04:53 PM']Purely out of interest, what first indicated to you this one is the real deal?[/quote]
It's a set-neck Rick 4000 - as far as I know (which I'm not proud to say is quite a long way these days) there aren't any copies of those.

I suppose there's a fraction of a possibility that it's a massively obscure copy that either me or other Faker nuts have never seen before, or that it's a custom one-off, but all the evidence points to a Rick 4000, built at the point when this model had a set-neck, which would be between about 1975 - 1987-ish. I'd need a look under the scratchplate, or better, the truss cover to be 100% certain - but I'm OK with 99.8%.

J.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='790908' date='Mar 30 2010, 06:30 PM']It's a set-neck Rick 4000 - as far as I know (which I'm not proud to say is quite a long way these days) there aren't any copies of those.

I suppose there's a fraction of a possibility that it's a massively obscure copy that either me or other Faker nuts have never seen before, or that it's a custom one-off, but all the evidence points to a Rick 4000, built at the point when this model had a set-neck, which would be between about 1975 - 1987-ish. I'd need a look under the scratchplate, or better, the truss cover to be 100% certain - but I'm OK with 99.8%.

J.[/quote]

So its same sorta job as the guy in this vid has?

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='791086' date='Mar 30 2010, 08:45 PM']So its same sorta job as the guy in this vid has?

[/quote]
Probably - but that one's had its pup/plate swapped so it could've been an unbound/dot neck 4001, McCartney/Chris Squire style. Having said that, you can't see a skunk stripe on the body so yes, likely a set-neck 4000.

This is what the 'Bay one probably looked like:

[attachment=46246:4000_full_01.jpg]

The only thing about the Ebay one that looks a bit odd is the dark fretboard - although it's had a refin so chances are the board's had its lacquer stripped too & has possibly been stained or oiled darker.

J.

Edited April 2, 2010 by Bassassin

[Mr. Foxen]

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Indie-IRK-4-Classic-Shape-Bass-Guitar-Natural_W0QQitemZ190385892610QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item2c53e22d02"]Indie[/url]

[Bassassin]

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180490438653"]Through-neck body project[/url]

Despite being listed as a Rick 4001, this is a copy - routing & inlays do not check out as original. It also has a nasty-looking refin & an even nastier-looking neck/fretboard separation.

Jon.

[Annoying Twit]

Who does actually make the Rockinbetter copies? If I search everyone says Tokai, but is this actually the case?

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' post='798301' date='Apr 7 2010, 08:00 AM']Who does actually make the Rockinbetter copies? If I search everyone says Tokai, but is this actually the case?[/quote]
They're not Japanese, so even if the Rockinbetter brand is anything to do with Tokai, they'll be from whatever Korean/Chinese/Taiwanese/Indonesian factory Tokai Gakki subcontracts to make their cheapos.

There's no reference to be found to Rockinbetter basses or guitars on Tokai's UK or Japanese sites. It's curious that they would be coy about putting their own brand name on them too - after all they had the audacity to call their original line of LP clones "Les Paul Reborn". Historically, they don't seem to have ever made a 4001/4003 copy, but they have fairly recently made a 325 guitar - which says "Tokai" on the TRC:

[url="http://www.tokairegistry.com/images/catalogs/tokai20013.jpg"]2000 catalogue[/url]

However, here's a Rockinbetter that absolutely isn't a Tokai:

[url="http://www.jsdguitarshack.com/dillion_guitars/dillion_rockinbetter_bass.html"]http://www.jsdguitarshack.com/dillion_guit...etter_bass.html[/url]

The bass itself is different - it's more like the Indie copy, but with a correct-shaped headstock. However the specs of these things seem to change regularly.

The only references to "Tokai Rockinbetter" to be found outside of forum discussions is on retailers' websites. Make of that what you will.

J.

[Annoying Twit]

That's very interesting, that the "Rockinbetter" bass you found is made by Dillion guitars Canada. They were (I'm told) the people behind the guitars often described as "Fakai" on the My Les Paul forum. I'm told that the Dillion company started making fake Tokai guitars in their Korean (contractors presumably) factory, and selling them. They're easily recognisable due to having a fair amount of writing on the back of the headstock. You can see the writing on the back of the headstock of the red guitar in the following link.

[url="http://www.guitarscanada.com/electric-guitar/32867-my-canadian-fakai-2.html"]http://www.guitarscanada.com/electric-guit...an-fakai-2.html[/url]

Given that Dillion already has a history of this sort of thing (allegedly), perhaps they're behind the "Rockinbetters". Or perhaps they've appropriated the "Rockinbetter" for their own purposes. It's certainly a thickening plot type situation. In that perhaps this is where the "Tokai" connection comes from.

[Bassassin]

That's fascinating - I didn't know about the "Fakai" knockoffs. Looks like Dillion themselves weren't involved though - the first post on the thread says Tokai's Canadian distributor used the factory that makes Dillions to source the Fakais when he couldn't get the spec he wanted from Tokai. I love the idea that they were better quality copies than the copies they were copying!

Anyway there's a connection there, so I think we might be onto something...

As far as thickening plots are concerned, I first came across the Dillion brand on the RickResource forum - it seems that they got slapped with a Cease & Desist from Big John Hall for, funnily enough, making Rick fakers. But it gets worse. There are two completely distinct & unrelated Dillions on the other side of the Atlantic:

[url="http://www.dillionguitars.com/"]http://www.dillionguitars.com/[/url]

And the first thing they tell you is:

[quote]Dillion U.S.A is independently owned. Our guitars are hand crafted in Korea.
We are not affiliated with Dillion guitars in Canada.[/quote]

They don't have a Ric copy - or a Rockinbetter - in their range. So I wonder which Dillion's arse JH got legal on?

J.

[Annoying Twit]

Shuker six string Rickenfaker. You don't see those every day.

[url="http://www.limeshark.com/shukers.html"]http://www.limeshark.com/shukers.html[/url]



(apologies for lack of ebay link)

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' post='799500' date='Apr 8 2010, 09:21 AM']Shuker six string Rickenfaker. You don't see those every day.

[url="http://www.limeshark.com/shukers.html"]http://www.limeshark.com/shukers.html[/url]



(apologies for lack of ebay link)[/quote]
That's a guy on here - can't remember his name offhand. He got Mr S to build him a matching pair!

J.

[velvetkevorkian]

Wizbat is the member I think.

[Soloshchenko]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' post='799500' date='Apr 8 2010, 09:21 AM']Shuker six string Rickenfaker. You don't see those every day.

[url="http://www.limeshark.com/shukers.html"]http://www.limeshark.com/shukers.html[/url]



(apologies for lack of ebay link)[/quote]

That's cool.

[Mr. Foxen]

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MODIFIED-BASS-GUITAR-ELECTRIC-UNUSUAL-WORK-IN-PROGRESS_W0QQitemZ130382076579QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item1e5b609aa3"]Possibly the worst one yet.[/url]

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='802299' date='Apr 11 2010, 02:20 AM'][url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MODIFIED-BASS-GUITAR-ELECTRIC-UNUSUAL-WORK-IN-PROGRESS_W0QQitemZ130382076579QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item1e5b609aa3"]Possibly the worst one yet.[/url][/quote]
That's one of those funny little Kay short-scale efforts - the pinnacle of Taiwanese guitar manufacture in the 70s! Not surprised the seller thinks it's "modified" (it ain't!) - the last one of these I saw was being advertised as "home made" because it was so crude!

J.