NightGoat Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 Thanks for the reaction Bassassin! I am prety sure it is not a Greco, for different reasons. When I bought her 25 years ago in Amsterdam it was already a used guitar so where she was imported, i just don´t know. Maya or Elmaya is definitely a possibility. Although I thought that Elmaya bases had serial numbers. In another post I saw a picture of a black Elmaya bass that looks very alike. Are there any specific markings on Maya or Elmaya guitars you know of? Something that looks like this maybe? Thanks Beedster! She looks very sweet but when she opens het mouth....
Bassassin Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 Maya/El Maya are a bit of an enigma. There are a couple of confirmed facts about their origin - the brands are owned by a Japanese trading company called Rokkomann, which is based in Kobe. Anecdotally, Rokkomann operated their own manufacturing plant which (again anecdotally) was destroyed in the Hanshin earthquake in 1995. I have been able to find no confirmation of this, so the origin of Mayas & El Mayas still remains a mystery. El Maya is usually understood to be the higher-quality tier of the Maya brand, although you do see a fair bit of crossover of models. Regarding the age of the bass, I'd say it's probably pre-1980. Really, by the end of the 70s, most Japanese brands (including Maya) were focusing more on exporting good-quality original designs, while the copy market was fulfilled by the emerging Korean & Taiwanese manufacturers. Home-grown copies remained popular in the Japanese home market, probably due to less pressure from copyright owners than the US & European markets experienced. I'm not knowledgeable enough to be able to either identify or translate the heel stamp from your bass - however, there are a couple of Japanese-speaking BC members (Annoying Twit & noelk27) who might have an idea what the Kanji means. J.
NightGoat Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 I am very happy with your knowledge Bassassin! you are actually the first one to give me some additional info. I have some blogs running in the US, NL and your BC about this bass and you are the first who mentions Maya or Elmaya. I tried japanese blogs but the translating al the stuff is just to complicated. Is there any way I can contact the guys you mention to maybe identify the red stamp?
NightGoat Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 stupid question! i will send them a PM, thanks!
FlatEric Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 Hi all. If it is any help, just to rule out what it isn't, this is a Greco PMB. The PM are the initials of a player from the Beatles!! [url="http://flatericbassandguitar.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/ibanez-2459b-destroyer-and-greco.html"]http://flatericbassandguitar.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/ibanez-2459b-destroyer-and-greco.html[/url] Cheers,
NightGoat Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 Thanks dude for the link! Nice collection of Japanese beauties. Love the light wood bases with natural finish, always falling for them!
NightGoat Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 A little update: Unfortunately it seems that I am not getting any further in finding out the origin of my bass guitar. I have ruled out a lot of brands and possibilities. But finding out what it is, seems virtually impossible. It seems that the Hanko stamp behind the scratchplate is the last clue that is left to figure out where my bass came from. Are there any Elmaya owners who found a similar stamp in the cavity behind the scratchplate? (post #2176)
NightGoat Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 These are some pictures i came across, the red stamp seems to be the same as the one on my guitar. It presumably is a personal stamp ¨Hanko¨ whitch says ¨sanjo¨. The dark stamp is supposedly an ¨Hon¨ stamp from an inspector with the name ¨Yamada¨. Thats it for now...
Musky Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 If that is a date in the dark stamp, it would translate into a Western calendar as 12th November 1979.
NightGoat Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 The combination of the two stamps I am finding interesting. The dark stamp is a inspectors hon presumably from the Chushin factory. if that is so, the red stamp has something to do with Chushin as wel.
chriswareham Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 [quote name='Musky' timestamp='1392164663' post='2365639'] If that is a date in the dark stamp, it would translate into a Western calendar as 12th November 1979. [/quote] I'm intrigued by the year - I hadn't realised that the system of numbering years relative to the era had been retained after the Second World War.
chriswareham Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 On a Rickenfaker related note, my Jolana D-Bass got its first live outing last Sunday. I foolishly decided to change the strings on my Stingray earlier in the day, but thanks to a sharp edge that's developed on one of the tuners the top string snapped as I tried to bring it into tune. I retuned the Jolana to drop Bb and was relieved to find that it wasn't just playable, but actually felt even more comfortable than the Stingray! We videoed the gig, but sadly the best shot I can provide of the bass is this one: The Jolana did me proud though, really punchy sounding.
NightGoat Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 [quote][i]The black stamp says: INSPECTOR Nov. 12, 1978 ("54" means "54th year of the Showa Emperor," which is 1978) Yamada"[/i] Neck pickup stamps (inspector hon) contain exact date of production, that complements the numbering on the back of the pickups. Pickup serials may vary in date by week or two when compared to body dating. The hone has the "inspector" top part, surname of the inspector (山田- Yamada in most cases) at the bottom of hon and the date in the middle section of the hon. First two numbers represent a year (50-1975,51-1976,52-1977 etc - the era of Hirohito "Showa" Emperor), next two numbers represent month (1-january..12-december), and last two are day of the month.[/quote]
NightGoat Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) So there seems to be some kind of connection with Chushin Gakki. [url="http://hubpages.com/hub/Japanese-Manufacturers-of-Made-In-Japan-Badged-Guitars-from-1950-to-1980"]http://hubpages.com/hub/Japanese-Manufacturers-of-Made-In-Japan-Badged-Guitars-from-1950-to-1980[/url] I am thinking the Guitar is maybe a ¨Maya¨ or ¨El Maya¨ 4001s model bass made between 1974 and 1978 in the Chushin factory and not in the Maya Factory. I am in no way sure. unless other/unknown info is bubbling up from somewhere it probably stays that way. Edited February 15, 2014 by NightGoat
waldflote8 Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 interesting to read these recent posts about Mayas/El Mayas. I have a mystery faker too and my best guess to date was a Maya or Kasuga. Unfortunately no stamps or other identifying marks. Let me know if you want me to go look under/behind this/that/the other. Appreciate anyone's ideas as to what this one might be. (apart from a clang stick or any other Ricabuse ) cheers Andrew
Beedster Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 [quote name='NightGoat' timestamp='1392471950' post='2369129'] So there seems to be some kind of connection with Chushin Gakki. [url="http://hubpages.com/hub/Japanese-Manufacturers-of-Made-In-Japan-Badged-Guitars-from-1950-to-1980"]http://hubpages.com/...om-1950-to-1980[/url] I am thinking the Guitar is maybe a ¨Maya¨ or ¨El Maya¨ 4001s model bass made between 1974 and 1978 in the Chushin factory and not in the Maya Factory. I am in no way sure. unless other/unknown info is bubbling up from somewhere it probably stays that way. [/quote] I'm looking for a bass like that
Bassassin Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Pretty sure it's not a Kasuga - I'd expect checked binding & a toaster style neck pup with some very fancy routing. As with a lot of these, it's easier to say what it's not than what it is - so this definitely isn't either a Matsumoku or a Fujigen build. I've said in the past that the problem with 70s copies is that a lot of them do tend to look very similar and there are a lot of Fakers at the higher end of the food chain (solid timber bodies, through-neck construction, accurate hardware & pups) where it's really hard to identify them. Basses branded Shaftesbury, CMI, Cimar, Fresher, Maya, Arbiter etc all fall into this category & so far I'm at a loss to say which factories actually made them. Jon.
waldflote8 Posted February 27, 2014 Posted February 27, 2014 thanks,.. the Maya/Kasuga was the best I could get at the time, also based on elimination,.. it doesn't seem to have any of the more common faker giveaways (incorrect binding, pickups, bridge holes etc.) comparing it with the real thing - sounds authentic too. Single truss rod and 4 pc body are most obvious differences.
NightGoat Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 @ waldeflot8: May I ask you what the features are by which you think it is a maya bass guitar? Maybe Fresher or Fernandes are posibilities? these are just wild guesses! Based on my own research it appears to be almost impossible to trace the name it was originally branded with. Only because I found a bass that looks exactly the same and the little red stamp in the pot-meter cavity I found a potential maker/brand. There is still no evidence, only assumptions. @Beedster: Oh man... getting all sentimental only thinking about parting with this baby. I am actually thinking of giving her new frets and a little tuneup.
waldflote8 Posted March 2, 2014 Posted March 2, 2014 better state first that I was referring to my own faker, sorry if I have confused things. Here's a bigger picture I looked around a while back and by elimination, arrived at a Maya, or Kasuga,..... others like Ibanez, Hondo etc. seemed to have more obvious faker errors (pickups, bolt necks, binding, bridge holes) From what I have seen since though there are a load of variations, so I am not much the wiser.
Bassassin Posted March 2, 2014 Posted March 2, 2014 Just to add a bit more confusion to the mix, it wasn't only the Japanese factories making high-quality, accurate copies. Italian manufacturer Gherson made a very nice neck-through bass with twin truss rods (quite easy to ID, though) but for me the proper widcard is Brazilian acoustic guitar builder Giannini, whose 70s Fakers were near-indistiguishable from the best-quality MIJ examples: [url="http://hisonic.blogspot.co.uk/"]http://hisonic.blogspot.co.uk/[/url] Regarding Japanese factories, I could reel off a list of about 20-odd who were making & exporting copy guitars under various different brands in the 70s, and I'm confident there were any number of other, smaller manufacturers doing the same thing. All of them were copying the popular American instruments of the era, so it's entirely reasonable to assume they all made Rick 4001 copies. We will never be able to identify them all! J.
waldflote8 Posted March 2, 2014 Posted March 2, 2014 quite - I've just been trawling through a big chain of posts relating to fakers (which I didn't see first time around) and just when you think that you are narrowing it down a bit,. there's a contradiction. Just need to enjoy it as a mystery faker I guess, cheers..
Skybone Posted March 3, 2014 Posted March 3, 2014 Have any of the Rockinbetter owners changed the scratchplate on theirs?
NightGoat Posted March 3, 2014 Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) [quote name='waldflote8' timestamp='1393786459' post='2384369'] here are some detail hardware shots: [/quote] My question was a little confusing, sorry for that! English is not my native language so sometimes I am struggling a little bit, think i missed a few things... I can see some similarities and also some differences with your and my bass. The bridge, the shape of the cavities, and the 4 peace body are some differences. The jack outputs and pickups look the same as far as I can tell. Giannini. would be nice.!... But i have really no idea how you can confirm that. Edited March 3, 2014 by NightGoat
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