Indigotheory Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Bit of info required here Does anyone know anything about this bass here? All I really know is It's likely it was made in the Matsumoko factory during the 70's lawsuit era, it's a 4003, single truss rod and just says "strings" on the headstock, which googling this obviously brings up pages and pages of bass strings! Can anyone shed any light on this? It's in beautiful condition considering its from the 70's. Thanks all
Musky Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Bassasin will doubtless be along before too long, but until he does I can tell you that's not been made by Matsumoku. The Mats had twin truss rods and didn't use those tuners. Off the top of my head I can only remember two Rick copies that used those tuners on UK imported brands, and they were Shaftesbury and Hondo. The Hondos had bolt on necks and didn't have the stripe on the body so it's not a Hondo. It might have come from the same factory as a Shaftesbury - the same instruments could be imported under any number of brand names, of which Shaftesbury was just one amongst many. Unfortunately nobody knows which factory (or even factories) Rose Morris (owner of the Shaftesbury brand) sourced their Rick copies from.
Indigotheory Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Thanks for pitching in Yea this is a neck thru one, and definitely made in the 70's era in Japan, Someone told me this is very similar, if not pretty much the same quality as a Shaftesbury one. Then someone claimed it may well be CMI, Which means it's essentially made by Marshall! Fascinating history lesson when you get looking into these! Well I've had a choice between this one here and a "Tokai" Rockinbetter, In short, I've always played guitar, and self taught on bass, however I played bass in my last band and really enjoyed it, that was a couple of years ago. I currently don't have a bass or any bass gear just yet and I've always had a thing for the Rickenbackers, just my current social stratification yells I can't afford the real deal, so, as we live to our means here I am! Asking people about these elusive Japanese made ones that are older than me! Anyway, I'm getting the bug again to either start or join a band again and jump back on bass with a fairly decent Rick style bass I can actually afford! I think the bottom line seems to be the majority of the basses made in Japan in the 70's are overall quality instruments! And are far superior to the more recent Rockinbetter ones
Indigotheory Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Couple more photos here for reference, excellent condition considering its possible age!
Musky Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 What it actually is is a 'Strings' bass. Knowing that puts you one step further along the road to knowledge than 90% of 'faker owners, whose basses have usually lost the original truss rod cover. The things with these basses is that many distributors would approach a manufacturer and order the same instrument, with the only difference being the name on the headstock. Sometimes these distributors would be a large company, other times a local shop that could meet the minimum order, but they'd all come badged with their own name on the headstock. So while your bass might have come from the same factory as the Shaftesburys and some CMIs (CMI also used Mat for some of their Rick copies) it's not either of those brand names, because it has it's own! If the factory that made these things was known we could say the Shaftesbury, CMI and Strings basses were a [insert factory name] bass, but sadly we don't. If it were me I'd take the chance on the one pictured simply for the rarity value, but don't make the mistake of thinking all 70's Japanese basses were diamonds. A friend had a Shaftesbury 'faker that had an action much higher than he would have liked, and it couldn't be corrected because of the set neck. I think someone on here bought it off the 'bay and also commented on the action. Incidentally, if the basses you're looking at are advertised online act quickly - Jon Hall has a habit of shutting the sale down very quickly. Contact the seller for a phone number so you can at least get their contact details.
Bassassin Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Musky' timestamp='1421791519' post='2665169'] Bassasin will doubtless be along before too long, [/quote] And I'll say the same as I said on the Facebook Fakers group! Which is basically what Musky just said: Not Matsumoku or any of the "big name" MIJ builders, but these are great, well-made & very authentic basses. However we don't yet know enough about the Japanese factories of the era to really have a clue who made these. They are head & shoulders above any of the current crop of "Chickenbackers" though, which includes the Rockinbetter. I will point out (before anyone else does) that there is no connection at all between Rockinbetter & Tokai Gakki. I mentioned the Shaftesbury-branded basses on FB - this isn't similar, it's the exact same instrument with a different brand name - likewise the CMI, Cimar, JHS etc versions, I think it's pretty evident they all came from the same factory. This happens all the time with vintage MIJ stuff - eg. identical Les Paul copies turn up branded Columbus, Avon, Saxon, Maya, Sumbro, Grant etc. Like the Fakers, these all have details indicating they're from the same origin. These brand names on MIJ copies are very seldom anything to do with the factory that made them. Importers would order batches of instruments built to their own choice of specs & brand name, and often they would source from several different factories, probably based on the deals available at the time. This means that the "Strings" name probably can't tell us anything about the origin of the bass - and having never seen this brand before, I'm quite inclined to think the bass has made its way from overseas, likely continental Europe. "Strings" isn't connected to any of the other brands mentioned, it will just be a name used by whoever imported/distributed it - in fact a number of names, such as Grant & Sumbro, were really just local music shops' own brands. Jon. Edit - beat me to it, Musky! Edited January 20, 2015 by Bassassin
Musky Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 [quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1421796181' post='2665259'] Edit - beat me to it, Musky! [/quote] But you said it so much better Jon.
Indigotheory Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Bassassin Thanks for clearing this up! I've read through the replies a couple of times, and this overall seems worth going for, especially for what it is, or what it may not be in this case Really, at the end of the day, if you yourself like it and gel with it, that is ultimately all that matters, I mean, of course im interested in the origin (and story that goes with it), the quality, overall sound, and fit, feel, finish of this elusive bass! and above all just to make 100% sure I ain't getting the wool pulled over my eyes, as admittedly I don't know much about the fakers,
blunderthumbs Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 Here's my faker [attachment=182819:IMG_0419.JPG]
Annoying Twit Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 The 'Strings' bass looks very much like my Cimar. Even unto the finish. (Though, I suspect that my Cimar has been refinished at some point). Mine has a different (and suspiciously new looking) metal plate where the two jack sockets are.
Musky Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 [quote name='blunderthumbs' timestamp='1422976264' post='2679052'] Here's my faker [attachment=182819:IMG_0419.JPG] [/quote] Bass Collection?
Skybone Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 [quote name='blunderthumbs' timestamp='1422976264' post='2679052'] Here's my faker [attachment=182819:IMG_0419.JPG] [/quote] On the "RickenFakers" facebook group? Looks a lot like my Rockinbetter, 'cept I've put a Ric bridge surround on & replaced the control knobs.
Skybone Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Just ordered a new Rockinbetter, a black one this time. Can't wait for it to turn up now!
MutatisMutandis Posted May 21, 2015 Posted May 21, 2015 [url="http://basschat.co.uk/user/37645-mutatismutandis/"][/url] Has any body seen either of these anywhere?
Bassassin Posted May 22, 2015 Posted May 22, 2015 [quote name='MutatisMutandis' timestamp='1432233692' post='2779588'] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/user/37645-mutatismutandis/"][/url] Has any body seen either of these anywhere? [/quote] Got a bigger/better pic? This one just links to your profile! Jon.
Bassassin Posted May 22, 2015 Posted May 22, 2015 Curious. Are these actually working, playable instruments? Whatever they are, they're custom one-offs, maybe based around Ricks or Rick copies. Hammered metal (bronze or copper, maybe), likely coverings over the original bodies/heads. No - never seen anything like these before! J.
MutatisMutandis Posted May 22, 2015 Posted May 22, 2015 They were made entirely of metal... and yes they played very well. The guitar was not as heavy as my Les Paul and the bass was lighter than my JB. Definately one offs
MutatisMutandis Posted May 25, 2015 Posted May 25, 2015 just bought a 70s shaftesbury rickalike bass. slipped through on ebay..... it's a mess right now, but is the bassis of a real good machine. Will do a rebirth. Would posting pics of the process infringe the ten commandments?
Dad3353 Posted May 25, 2015 Posted May 25, 2015 [quote name='MutatisMutandis' timestamp='1432553970' post='2782536'] just bought a 70s shaftesbury rickalike bass. slipped through on ebay..... it's a mess right now, but is the bassis of a real good machine. Will do a rebirth. Would posting pics of the process infringe the ten commandments? [/quote] As longer as it's not offered for sale, it's a subject as any other. There's no ban on Rickies, nor copies, only the commerce of 'em, as the authenticity cannot be guaranteed.
MutatisMutandis Posted May 25, 2015 Posted May 25, 2015 wouldn't Mr Hall be better off concentrating on his own quality control issues, rather than nerding the web looking for traces of the things his father let slide decades ago? Budwieser found to there serious embarassment and great financial loss, that this kind action cannot be applied retrospectively. I now drink the "beer of kings" (a statement which is fact) rather than the lackluster american sound alike "king of beers" ( a nonesense advertising blurb). I noticed that Coca Cola have registered the word "Happiness" as a trade mark. So it is with great Happiness that I am now the proud owner of a lovely Shaftesbury bass guitar, maybe not as good as the Rickenbacker it is a copy of... but by the time I have done I am pretty sure it will be.
MutatisMutandis Posted May 30, 2015 Posted May 30, 2015 I got another one... A thru neck... but I don't know what i is.....
MutatisMutandis Posted May 30, 2015 Posted May 30, 2015 Did Shergold make copies of Rickenbackers? Anybody?
Bassassin Posted May 30, 2015 Posted May 30, 2015 [quote name='MutatisMutandis' timestamp='1432947960' post='2786574'] I got another one... A thru neck... but I don't know what i is..... [/quote] Show us a pic then. Might well be able to ID it. [quote name='MutatisMutandis' timestamp='1432948221' post='2786576'] Did Shergold make copies of Rickenbackers? Anybody? [/quote] No. But John Birch did. J.
MutatisMutandis Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 How would you spot a JBirch one? and I've just read the "Leafenbacker" build thread on Talk bass.......what a fantastic story... that girl is clever.
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