Iheartreverb Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 hi all, So my Ampeg SVT 7pro just died on me which is being refunded and I'm going to buy another amp head. Trouble is I have a 1200 watt Matamp 4x10 cab (that I got a deal on here on the forums). I'm aware that underpowering isn't s massive issue and in no way detrimental to your gear as over doing it buuuuuut, on my 7pro which is 600W into 8ohm I needed to have the volume fairly high and it's a pretty high powered head, will a "normal" amp even cut it? My shortlist at the minute is Aguilar TH500 Orange OB500 Ampeg PF800 But which the 500W options I'm going to get just half of the total output which is then less than 1/4 of the amps total output; can't help but feeling I'm going to need to nail the amp just to get reasonable volume, am I wrong? At the time of getting my head I nearly bought an Orange TB500 and the guy I was buying it from advised me against it based on power. Any and all a device appreciated. Any questions then fire away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 If the gain structureof the 7 Pro is anything like that of the 3 Pro, there is a lot of headroom built in to allow boost from the graphic EQ. Also the difference in volume from a 500W to 600W or even 800W head is not that much. The limiting factor may be the sensitivity of the speakers (or lack thereof). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Having had the TH500 and Terror 500 I can`t see how they wouldn`t be plenty enough power wise. I`ve also had the PF500 (and briefly the 350 as well) and again, plenty of power. OK, most of the time I`ve had these amps connected to efficient 4ohm cabs, and I do have the gain set to break up, but my volume in general never needed to reach 10 o`clock on the volume from any of these amps. And the bands I`ve used them in haven`t been quiet, punk generally. From those listed the PF does a very nice Ampeg sound, but not too much breakup/gain. The Terror does gain very well, a fairly limited eq but it does it very well indeed. The TH500, well that can do all sorts, it`s an old-school sounding amp, but I`d always describe them as a slightly more modern take of the Ampeg sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iheartreverb Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 Thanks so far guys. In the case of the 500w options I'm just a bit worried of only sending 250(ish)W into a 1200W cab and any negative aspect sound wise or otherwise I might get from that. On my 7pro I would run the gain just before I got the clip light and then adjust volume to taste but even then I would need the volume at around 2 o'clock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) Personally, I'm thinking you'll have issues with 500w class D... and I think you need to borrow one and demo it on the gig in context to know. The real issue, IMO, is whether you need a heavyweight sound for the gigs you do. If you are doing most gigs without FOH support, some amps, and the big blocks in particular, are too much..and that is where a class D is useful. IMO. There are IME, some gigs a big block can't or shouldn't do, and likewise, there are some a Class D can't or shouldn't either.... in an ideal world and IMO. Edited September 27, 2015 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iheartreverb Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 Gigging isn't a massive concern yet, my band are about 12 months away from that and I have a DI on my board should I need to use it. This is really for our practice space but I need volume as I'm competing with two 100W Fender twins and rightly or wrongly, we practice very very loud. Again, output wise I needed to run my 7pro quite hard to get the volume I wanted but would occasionally use the -db input to clean the signal up too. My concerns at this point are really with the power ratings of the a,p against the cab and if anyone can offer any advice on this. But take onboard what you say that the smaller options might not be loud enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Putting aside how loud you ought or need to be and concentrating on will a 500w class D into 8ohms be enough against the 2 gtrs, I'd be pretty confident in saying 'no chance' myself. Borrow one for the rehearsal to see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naetharu Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 My only advice would be to order your new amp from a good online retailer like thomman. That way you have a thirty day return option which guve s you plenty of time to try it out and see how it works for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 [quote name='Iheartreverb' timestamp='1443345694' post='2873932']... My concerns at this point are really with the power ratings of the a,p against the cab and if anyone can offer any advice on this... [/quote] I'd suggest ignoring the power ratings totally, as they're a very poor indication of what is happening in any circumstances. An amp is rated at max power o/p with a certain load, but rarely is the distortion figure (thd..?) given. Cabs are rated at, in theory, the power which will damage them thermally, not at how 'loud' they'll go, nor at what power they'll sound best. The only real test is one's ears. Realistically, unless the cab builder is massively cheating with the figures, a 1200w cab will be fine, electrically, driven by any amp on the market; Matamp have, in this respect, a good reputation for not cheating with their figures. You won't damage the cab with any of the amps stated. As for being underpowered, the sound pressure coming from the cab, and perceived 'loudness', are much more a function of the 'cleanliness' of your tone (Pedals..? 'Grit'..?) than the numbers given by the amp constructor. I'd suggest, from what I imagine (perhaps wrongly...) what your band sound like, that a 200w valve amp would suit your sound more; a Matamp, Hiwatt or Mesa will (easily..?) 'compete' with the valve-driven guitars. In any case, look for an amp which can run for hours at high level, and forget about the cab. It won't break before you're (all...) deaf, although that'll come about soon enough..! Hope this helps (... but I'm a drummer, so what would I know..? ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Iheartreverb' timestamp='1443302139' post='2873777'] I needed to have the volume fairly high and it's a pretty high powered head [/quote] You cant necessarily infer headroom levels from the position of an amps master volume - depending on the design of the amp, and how hot you are running the preamp, drive levels, any EQ applied etc its entirely possible that the power section could be on tickover with it on 100% MV or already maxed out at 30% MV (although both these extremes are unlikely in practice). Edited September 27, 2015 by bassman7755 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iheartreverb Posted September 28, 2015 Author Share Posted September 28, 2015 Thank for all the advice so far guys! Really appreciated. A fair mixed bag of opinions! Still don't know if 500W will be enough volume wise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 If 500 watts isn`t enough then your hearing is getting some extreme - and permanently damaging I would think - battering by those kind of volumes. Unless you need some really crystal clean headroom and would be keeping the volume low on the amp that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 [quote name='Iheartreverb' timestamp='1443345694' post='2873932'] Gigging isn't a massive concern yet, my band are about 12 months away from that and I have a DI on my board should I need to use it. This is really for our practice space but I need volume as I'm competing with two 100W Fender twins and rightly or wrongly, we practice very very loud. Again, output wise I needed to run my 7pro quite hard to get the volume I wanted but would occasionally use the -db input to clean the signal up too. My concerns at this point are really with the power ratings of the a,p against the cab and if anyone can offer any advice on this. But take onboard what you say that the smaller options might not be loud enough [/quote] I think we've all been here at some point - please dude IMHO you (and the other guys in the band) should seriously consider reducing the volume levels for rehearsals. Apart from being completely unnecessary and possibly even counter productive when you're writing or honing a song - as Lozz says you could end up with damaged hearing. Also consider this - when you do get to gigging (I'm assuming you're an original material band who are aiming to be on larger stages rather than pub gigs) - sound guys usually HATE a massively loud backline. That's what FOH systems are for. Backline should only really be for monitoring if you have FOH support and if you are used to having an ear splitting stage volume, you are going to run into constant problems with angry sound men, and ultimately end up having to turn the amps down and be p1ssed off coz you can't get into it with the stage volume being quieter. You may already know all of this and not care! That's fine and I really don't want to be condescending either, so please don't think I'm a know all kn0bhead, believe me I'm not! I'm just speaking from my own experiences with this and I really think you'll benefit in the long run from getting used to playing at lower volumes. I certainly have. For info - I run a 500w class D amp into 2 barefaced super compacts and rarely need to turn the output past 10 o'clock. That's with a pretty loud drummer too. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iheartreverb Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 [quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1443527007' post='2875498'] I think we've all been here at some point - please dude IMHO you (and the other guys in the band) should seriously consider reducing the volume levels for rehearsals. Apart from being completely unnecessary and possibly even counter productive when you're writing or honing a song - as Lozz says you could end up with damaged hearing. Also consider this - when you do get to gigging (I'm assuming you're an original material band who are aiming to be on larger stages rather than pub gigs) - sound guys usually HATE a massively loud backline. That's what FOH systems are for. Backline should only really be for monitoring if you have FOH support and if you are used to having an ear splitting stage volume, you are going to run into constant problems with angry sound men, and ultimately end up having to turn the amps down and be p1ssed off coz you can't get into it with the stage volume being quieter. You may already know all of this and not care! That's fine and I really don't want to be condescending either, so please don't think I'm a know all kn0bhead, believe me I'm not! I'm just speaking from my own experiences with this and I really think you'll benefit in the long run from getting used to playing at lower volumes. I certainly have. For info - I run a 500w class D amp into 2 barefaced super compacts and rarely need to turn the output past 10 o'clock. That's with a pretty loud drummer too. Good luck! [/quote] Thanks for some good advice. Two guitarist are both running 100w twins on about 4. Is a bit too loud for practice but is a small room and seems needed once drummer starts going. I was running my 7pro at 8ohm with the master about 2 o'clock to keep up. But I completely appreciate your point about volume both in practice and live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunton-hobbit Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I'm thinking that something like a Crown !k Drivecore XLS class D might be worth a thought...as someone said previously, get it from someone who will accept returns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorR Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 [quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1443527007' post='2875498'] I think we've all been here at some point - please dude IMHO you (and the other guys in the band) should seriously consider reducing the volume levels for rehearsals. Apart from being completely unnecessary and possibly even counter productive when you're writing or honing a song - as Lozz says you could end up with damaged hearing. Also consider this - when you do get to gigging (I'm assuming you're an original material band who are aiming to be on larger stages rather than pub gigs) - sound guys usually HATE a massively loud backline. That's what FOH systems are for. Backline should only really be for monitoring if you have FOH support and if you are used to having an ear splitting stage volume, you are going to run into constant problems with angry sound men, and ultimately end up having to turn the amps down and be p1ssed off coz you can't get into it with the stage volume being quieter. You may already know all of this and not care! That's fine and I really don't want to be condescending either, so please don't think I'm a know all kn0bhead, believe me I'm not! I'm just speaking from my own experiences with this and I really think you'll benefit in the long run from getting used to playing at lower volumes. I certainly have. For info - I run a 500w class D amp into 2 barefaced super compacts and rarely need to turn the output past 10 o'clock. That's with a pretty loud drummer too. Good luck! [/quote] Condescending or wise words? Absolutely definitely the latter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Of you like the Ampeg sound and feel the need to keep another gear in reserve, think about the PF800. Most 500 watt heads will give you 350 watts into 8 ohms, which might not be enough, but the PF800 with be 500 watts at 8 ohms. If that doesn't work you need more speakers not more watts. I used to run a 500 watt amp into an 8 ohm 410 and it was loud enough for a very loud band. I sometimes added a 210 but that was really just showing off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) That`s a very good point there Chris - adding in a 210, or another 410 will really change things. Edited September 30, 2015 by Lozz196 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorR Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Hmmm 500W just won't be enough... Aaah, this thread had got me reminiscing about the old days when folk used to say "Wot ya need is twice as many watts as yer guitar player's amp and you'll be sorted." (We never knew at the time that such talk was pure tosh). The days when a 500W amp was what they used at Wemberley Stadium and my 200W TE combo with 8ohm 15" speaker was considered to be way more power than any amateur bassist could ever need... How times have changed, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Indeed. Fond memories of the Linear Concord... [url="http://imgur.com/XlhTUD7"][/url] 30 watts of Vox Clubman bass unleashed into a 15" Fane, bolted into an open-backed chipboard box. Heady stuff. Loud..? Enough for our village hall..! Edited September 30, 2015 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 My TH500 has more watts than my first 2 bands put together and the Thunderfunk has more watts than my first 3 bands put together. The volume of most bands I see has really got out of hand. We played one gig in Richmond where they told us if we didn't turn up the volume we'd be fired! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.