Light blue touchpaper and stand well back

[Happy Jack]

My cab preferences are pretty well documented on this site. I believe that I am normally referred to as "a Barefaced [i]fanboi[/i]".

A tad simplistic, I feel, but if the cap fits ...

So I was at the Herts Bassbash a few months back where, along with loads of other stuff going on, Bottle (Ian) had brought along a bass rig comprising two cheap PA cabs from Maplins (ProSound) and a self-built, half-finished valve head.

Ha ha ha, how we laughed. But it actually sounded surprisingly good. I only played through it for a few minutes, and there was that awful slapping nonsense going on elsewhere in the room, but it sounded pretty good to me.

Fast forward to The Great Cab Shoot-Out at the bash yesterday, and we're listening to a succession of cabs by Bergantino, Schroder, Barefaced, Phil Jones, etc. Then Ian says "go on, put mine up too".

Was it as good as a Berg or a Schroder? Don't be silly.

Was it massively cheaper than a Berg or a Schroder? Just ask that bear heading into the woods with a roll of toilet paper.

Was it blown out of the water, completely out of its league, easily the worst-sounding cab. Erm ... no.

So how does this work? How does a sub-£100 entry-level PA cab targeted at schoolboys who wannabe DJs manage to compete with expensive, high-quality bass cabs built by [i]pukka [/i]experts?

Edited September 27, 2015 by Happy Jack

[wateroftyne]

How do they sound on the gig compared to the other stuff?

Thats all that counts, IMO. If they sound great there, then... result!

[Muzz]

If it wasn't the worst...tell us what it was better than...I dare you

[taunton-hobbit]

Umm..stand by for Alex & Bill...?
There are so many variables...venue size....audience numbers....speaker placement.....rms vs required headroom......any jobsworth speaker should do ok in a limited space, it's the long-term practical 'useability' that often strangles this idea at birth for many......

[discreet]

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1443347894' post='2873953']
If it wasn't the worst...tell us what it was better than...I dare you
[/quote]

Yes, come on Jack - everyone's saying whatever they think about cabs today regardless, by the look of it (no matter how ill-advised their comments are), so spill the beans!

Edited September 27, 2015 by discreet

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1443346403' post='2873936']
So how does this work? How does a sub-£100 entry-level PA cab targeted at schoolboys who wannabe DJs manage to compete with expensive, high-quality bass cabs built by [i]pukka [/i]experts?
[/quote]

Probably because its not constrained by the bass cab design aesthetic which effectively bans the use of large tweeter horns.

There was a thread on talkbass some time ago about how a particular budget PA from carvin could be re-purposed as a near-boutique level bass cab by a modest driver upgrade. I seem to recall that the dimensions, port and horn/driver config of the cab almost exactly matched one of greenboys designs (whether by accident or design I dont know).

Edited September 27, 2015 by bassman7755

[JTUK]

If everything is great then its great but I do notice sound very quickly at gigs...and then you look at what is causing it..if you are so bothered.
I tend to think people are looking in the wrong place most of the time and they think gear alone can fix it.

I'm not a huge lover of Ampeg myself but I think I can make it sound good to my ears and like me...then you look at the very small margins
that all add up.
I've used a lot of stuff that I don't prefer and wouldn't buy and not a lot of it has sounded really bad..
Having said that, there are some very cheap and nasty things out there and if you can't get a clean close sound out of it, you
should bin it. Other people might not ask the same questions of it and it can suit their purposes fine.

For example..if you want everything to be heard, you are needing something completely different from a guy who wants an underpinning
rumble of a sound.

[Billy Apple]

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1443347894' post='2873953']
If it wasn't the worst...tell us what it was better than...I dare you
[/quote]

I don't think there was a worst. All the gear was top notch and I thought you couldn't get a fag-paper between most of it. It just came down to what sounded good to your ears at the time. I thought the Berg pretty good yesterday, but I've heard the same cab in a different room with a different bass and head and was not impressed.

Yes, the PA speaker was good and I guess with its price point makes it very good.

Cue BC run on Maplin's cabs a la Sue Ryder stylee

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1443350319' post='2873978']
Cue BC run on Maplin's cabs a la Sue Ryder stylee
[/quote]

Assuming were talking about this one: [url="http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/prosound-200w-rms-passive-speaker-n93fn"]http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/prosound-200w-rms-passive-speaker-n93fn[/url]
Would definitely be an interesting project to analyse the dimensions of this cab and see if there are any potential drop in replacements for the driver from the likes of eminence or beyma.

[Muzz]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1443352458' post='2874001']
Assuming were talking about this one: [url="http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/prosound-200w-rms-passive-speaker-n93fn"]http://www.maplin.co...e-speaker-n93fn[/url]
Would definitely be an interesting project to analyse the dimensions of this cab and see if there are any potential drop in replacements for the driver from the likes of eminence or beyma.
[/quote]

Holy moly... 64 quid?!

[Passinwind]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1443348721' post='2873961']
There was a thread on talkbass some time ago about how a particular budget PA from carvin could be re-purposed as a near-boutique level bass cab by a modest driver upgrade. I seem to recall that the dimensions, port and horn/driver config of the cab almost exactly matched one of greenboys designs (whether by accident or design I dont know).
[/quote]

It was a convenient surrogate cab used for development of the fEARful concept, because Dave Green hates building cabinets. He had me re-do the crossover, which was not really up to the task once he installed drivers that at the time cost about as much as the cab originally did, or maybe just a little more. But then later I heard a dead stock one and it was actually not bad at all. And then Carvin downgraded the spec, and Dave disavowed anything to do with the newer version. So, as with so many things, just depends.

[Phil Starr]

A couple of years ago a mate bought a couple of these for a cheap PA. I offered to take them apart and see if they could be easily improved, thinking that at the price a bit of bracing/damping/upgraded crossover/horn driver might give a cheap improvement of sound. Nothing doing the drivers looked to be pretty good at the price point, proper 2nd order crossover and a well constructed cab, unbelievable at the price. I wouldn't think the bass driver would be a high excursion one but I won't be sniffy about these, at the price there is no way you could match them with a self build. I never tried them with a bass but I'd expect them to struggle with high levels but two of them might have enough to match a drummer.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1443358166' post='2874069']
Holy moly... 64 quid?!
[/quote]

Yeah it seems impossible they could make it for that price, has a proper compression tweeter, even has a Speakon connector.

[Bottle]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1443352458' post='2874001']
Assuming were talking about this one: [url="http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/prosound-200w-rms-passive-speaker-n93fn"]http://www.maplin.co...e-speaker-n93fn[/url]
Would definitely be an interesting project to analyse the dimensions of this cab and see if there are any potential drop in replacements for the driver from the likes of eminence or beyma.
[/quote]
Yep, that's the one! TBH mine are about ten years old and don't have the Speakon connectors, and I got them on offer with a power amp at the same time. Pretty good for a basic two-way trap. cab.

I normally run them as a pair at 4 Ohms total to get the most out of the valve amp (and I have a sneaky third cab running low-passed from a rack crossover - yes, another Pro-Sound special!)

And BTW, the valve amp is now finished - see my earlier build thread. It's a 4W single-ended amp based on the Fender Tweed Champ design, and works well with the cabs if you don't mind a smidge too much top end

Edited October 1, 2015 by Bottle

[TrevorR]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1443350319' post='2873978']
I don't think there was a worst. All the gear was top notch and I thought you couldn't get a fag-paper between most of it.
[/quote]

Yup, what he said... they were all surprisingly good, including the PA cab. And even the 4x5" cab held its own withthe 2x12 and 1x15s in terms of volume, range and poke in the test (albeit that it was from a pretty top maker whose identity should be blindingly obvious just from the configuration).

[Bottle]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1443350319' post='2873978']
I don't think there was a worst. All the gear was top notch and I thought you couldn't get a fag-paper between most of it. It just came down to what sounded good to your ears at the time. I thought the Berg pretty good yesterday, but I've heard the same cab in a different room with a different bass and head and was not impressed.
[/quote]
I agree. There was nothing in the shoot-out I would avoid at all costs if gigging etc. They all had their plusses and minuses. I personally didn't like the tone from the Schroeders - too much top end, and was a little disappointed with the BareFaced cabs. I could't put my finger on it, it's so subjective, but they just didn't appeal to me. On the other hand, I thought the Berg 2x12 was great and even the little 4x5" carried some real punch.

Would I go for the Berg if I had the money? Sure, who wouldn't. Can I justify one right now? Nope.

I'm happy with my PA cabs for the place where I'm playing at the moment. If I was regularly playing a bigger venue then I might consider an upgrade, but I don't need to right now.