Old Encore PJ re-build? P-J or P-MM ?

[Grangur]

This weekend I gained 2 basses. This is interesting and brings a new challenge or 2.

Typical of the old Encores the TR adjustment is in the heel of the neck. The previous owner has stripped the body and it's open to new work.

The problems are with the neck. I have a broken tuning head - it would be good if I can get hold of a new one to match the existing.
There's also a rather iffy looking split in the headstock.

Does anyone here have any experience in fixing a split like this?
It's the line that goes from the string-tree to the nut.





My thoughts are to drill in from the G-string side and put a pin in there. Is this bass worth bothering? Or simply split it out and sell the parts?

Edited October 2, 2015 by Grangur

[paulnb57]

Fix it! It willl be fun! The headstock split isnt structural, the pin idea sounds good, possibly a dowel?

[Andyjr1515]

Is the split right through, Grangur?

As paulnb57 says, it is cosmetic rather than structural. Not even sure it needs a pin or dowel...

[Grangur]

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1443422012' post='2874451']
Is the split right through, Grangur?

As paulnb57 says, it is cosmetic rather than structural. Not even sure it needs a pin or dowel...
[/quote]

It is possible to wiggle the wood at the nut and open the split slightly. That doesn't give enough space to get any glue in there though. It's not bad enough to make me think of breaking it open and 're-sticking it, because I can't be sure that the split will continue in a clean way. I think it's been there a long time.

Maybe the answer is work on the rest of the bass and deal with it (or not) later.

What I am tempted to do is put a MM pup in at the J position. I've got a PJ already, but never had a PMM.

[Norris]

Is it all the same piece of wood or is the split on a join?

[Grangur]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1443426150' post='2874474']
Is it all the same piece of wood or is the split on a join?
[/quote] It appears to be the same piece of wood.

[Norris]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1443428480' post='2874492']
It appears to be the same piece of wood.
[/quote]

Shame. It might have broken cleanly if it was a join. In that case I'd maybe try using a spreader (old credit card?) to force some glue into the crack to stabilise it.

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1443472305' post='2875104']
What about getting really thin super glue to wick into the crack?

[/quote]
My thoughts too. If that doesn't work, then based on it able to physically move, then maybe a pin after all

[Grangur]

Good points here guys. Maybe I can wangle a scalpel blade or pin into the cracks enough to get some superglue down there. I'd certainly like to stabilise it.

[Marc S]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1443505644' post='2875251']
Good points here guys. Maybe I can wangle a scalpel blade or pin into the cracks enough to get some superglue down there. I'd certainly like to stabilise it.
[/quote]

Yes, this was my thought too
A very thin superglue would run into that split
But obviously, be careful where thin superglue can run / spill onto

EDIT: I'm thinking, your hands, clothes, the dining room carpet etc, as much as somewhere else on the guitar...

I think it'd be worthwhile getting some glue in there,
and once it has dried, putting some sort of pin in there
As you say, from the bottom (G string side)

A wooden dowel may give you the best bond, with a strong PVA type glue
But it might also mean you have to drill a wider hole, which may also weaken the "broken" piece
So maybe try a narrow dowel, or even a metal rod of some sort...
perhaps even 2 pins / dowels for added strength

I'd say this is worth a bash at repairing
At least it gives you chance to try some repair techniques, and there's no huge loss if it doesn't quite work out
You could always pick up another 2nd hand neck from somewhere

Good luck with it, and let us know how you get on

Edited September 29, 2015 by Marc S

[Norris]

If you need a really thin dowel try some wooden bbq skewers. I'd slacken the strings to make sure there's no tension first though and give it a good 24 hours for the glue to set

Edit: Superglue would probably be enough on its own though if you can get it right down in your crack (fnarr!)

Edited September 29, 2015 by Norris

[3below]

+1 very thin superglue. The brute force repair additional method would also involve inserting a screw from the G side, pulling the two parts together. Not elegant but effective. Body looks nice grain from front.

[paulnb57]

Is there enough meat on the headatock to reshape it to one similar to the early P Bass, large Tele headstock shape?

Just a thought......

Paul

[Marc S]

[quote name='3below' timestamp='1443556080' post='2875810']
+1 very thin superglue. The brute force repair additional method would also involve inserting a screw from the G side, pulling the two parts together. Not elegant but effective. Body looks nice grain from front.
[/quote]

Another neat idea!
This may be considered a bit more "brute force" but could work well
A neat method would be to drill a pilot hole for the screw,
then a slightly wider, shallower hole to countersink the screw....

Once everything was in place, and glue has had time to set
you could then fill the countersunk space with some sawdust and PVA, or suitably coloured wood filler

[Grangur]

[quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1443600878' post='2876005']
Another neat idea!
This may be considered a bit more "brute force" but could work well
A neat method would be to drill a pilot hole for the screw,
then a slightly wider, shallower hole to countersink the screw....

Once everything was in place, and glue has had time to set
you could then fill the countersunk space with some sawdust and PVA, or suitably coloured wood filler
[/quote]

Thanks for that. That's the kind of thing I was thinking of doing. If I can get 2 long, thin screws in there, then it should be stabilised and the risk of it being knocked off by an unfortunate knock should be minimised. If I can get the top counter-sunk a few mills then some filler of the right colour will hardly get noticed. Besides I doubt if this bass will ever be a great beauty. Certainly I doubt if it will ever be under great scrutiny unless I'm trying to pass it off as a vintage Fender.

[3below]

[quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1443600878' post='2876005']
Another neat idea!
This may be considered a bit more "brute force" but could work well
A neat method would be to drill a pilot hole for the screw,
then a slightly wider, shallower hole to countersink the screw....

Once everything was in place, and glue has had time to set
you could then fill the countersunk space with some sawdust and PVA, or suitably coloured wood filler
[/quote]

Pilot(s) and countersink(s) are a given
If a deep enough countersink is possible, 2 - 3mm+ you might even be able to insert a maple plug made using a plug cutter (£5-7 for a cheapie - 6mm? 8mm?). Virtually invisible if the colouring of the laquer can be matched. The challenge is now how invisible for how little money?

Edited September 30, 2015 by 3below

[blablas]

Why bother with all sorts of difficult repair ideas, the crack is in a non structural part of the headstock, just let some super glue creep in making use of the capillary effect and you are already done.
I've done this type of repair this way more than once, even on more structural parts!

Edited October 1, 2015 by blablas

[Grangur]

[quote name='blablas' timestamp='1443687976' post='2876828']
Why bother with all sorts of difficult repair ideas, the crack is in a non structural part of the headstock, just let some super glue creep in making use of the capillary effect and you are already done.
I've done this type of repair this way more than once, even on more structural parts!
[/quote]
Many thanks. Done. Did it last night. I now just have a small bit of sanding and re-lacquer and it'l be great.

Then onto the body asap.

Right now it's a PJ. I'm wondering if I should change the P-J to a P-MM

[SubsonicSimpleton]

What about P-P, or reverse P-MM(putting the treble coil of the P in front of the bass coil so the MM can go in the MM sweet spot)?

edit: If the bass owes you very little and you can live with a big scratchplate, you could swimming pool route the body and use it as a test bed for whatever pickup configurations take your fancy.

Edited October 3, 2015 by SubsonicSimpleton

[Grangur]

[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1443874495' post='2878357']
What about P-P, or reverse P-MM(putting the treble coil of the P in front of the bass coil so the MM can go in the MM sweet spot)?

edit: If the bass owes you very little and you can live with a big scratchplate, you could swimming pool route the body and use it as a test bed for whatever pickup configurations take your fancy.
[/quote]

Fair point about the swimming pool rout. At least that way I can do the rout. The only problem I have with that is an in-built dislike for pick guards; or to give them their correct name "cable route covers".

I'll think about that one.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Grangur

[Grangur]

Decided to stick with the jazz pup. So I've got the MM one up for sale.

Sanded down the body. It seems to be quite a good looking piece of ash, unless I'm mistaken.

The pickguard is a bit warped. I tried fitting it. It fits ok, but I'm not happy with it, even after drilling the holes to secure the pickguard. So I filled the holes by glueing and tapping in some kebab sticks. I nipped them off close to the body with some fret pliers and sanded the body again to get them flat.

I've gone for an oiled finish.



[size=4]I've also mailed Martin at www.simscustom.com [/size]about getting a new PG made. The jazz pup seems a bit weedy too, so I've ordered an Entwhistle.

Really pleased with the P pickup though.

[dannybuoy]

A P/J sounds great with both pickups blended, but I think a soloed J bridge pup sounds a bit weak. A P/MM (with the MM in the sweet spot right up close to the P) doesn't sound as good blended but it does give you a more usable soloed bridge pickup.

Options - add a coil split switch to the MM to give you just the south coil - this should sound close to the single coil J and perhaps blend better with the P. Especially if you use that funky Delano pickup that is half J and half MM. Or, what I would love to do, but would ideally need an unrouted body as a blank canvas - 70s position J + sweet spot MM + reverse P!

[Grangur]

Fair point Danny, about the solo'd J. I've got a Warwick SS1 PJ. So I know the J on that isn't as big as the P, but the J on the Encore is hardly audible by comparison to the P. Besides the Entwhistle is only £20 posted, so it's no big investment.

I thought about the MM. The sweetspot for a MM is with the first coil of the MM halfway through the bridge half on the P. On this, being a PJ, with the P positioned a bit further up to the neck it could go right behind the P, I guess.

I too had thought about having a split switch. It's not too late yet, I guess.

The other thought, is "what's building a bass about, if all you're going to do is stick with the standard config?"

Hmmmm you've got me thinking now.

[Grangur]

Measuring the position of the Encore P-pup. The bottom is 740mm from the nut.
This compares to:

Marlin Slammer P bass: 750mm
Westone Thunder P bass: 750mm
Warwick SS1 PJ: 774mm

My preference is for a bass tone, rather than too much of a Stingray clank. So if anything I'd probably like the pup near to the neck as possible.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

What about the layout that Billy Sheehan used on his first P, and the subsequent Yamaha attitude signature basses - P in normal position, and a mudbucker(or similar) near the neck.