Bass pedals Vs guitar pedals? Any real difference?

[operative451]

Hi!
So probably there will be worms everywhere after this but: is there really much difference tonally between effects pedals made for guitar and effects pedals made for bass? I've only actually got one 'bass specific' pedal, all my others are guitar/whatever and i don't *think* i'm missing anything? I know that a lot of bass drive pedals have a mix control to keep low end but is that it?

Backstory: i've dragged out my old guitar multi-fx (zoom 505, don't laugh!) for convenience and noise gate reasons and its ok - but clearly GAS is a thing, would one made specifically for bass be 'better'?

[JapanAxe]

The input capacitors on some guitar pedals are fine for guitars, but will shave some low end off the lower notes on a bass. Chaining several such pedals can make this even worse.

Many drive circuits (particularly TS types) also filter off the low-mids below about 700Hz to stop the driven signal becoming too muddy. Bass overdrives frequently have a blend control to mix in some unfiltered clean signal.

Modulation pedals designed for bass often work only on the mids and highs to prevent over-wobbly bass sounds.

I'm sure there are more differences...

[operative451]

Thanks! That's interesting and useful! I must admit my pedals as they are make my amp go 'BTTTHOORRRMP' quite happily if i turn the bass (knob) up too much - maybe they bother less with cheaper kit? Interestingly i found the specs for the inputs on the zoom 505 and 506 , spot the difference? As in, there isn't one. I note that the 505 tuner can't 'hear' anything below about a C-ish on the A string, but that might be software...

[attachment=201700:zoom_specs.png]

[Skybone]

Up until relatively recently, I was using my trusty old Line6 PODxt for both bass and guitar. In fact I bought and then sold both a Behringer Bass V-amp2 & a Bass PODxt, because the guitar version I already had sounded far better to my ears than the bass specific modellers.

I then bought a Zoom B3 earlier this year, which sounds great.

[ahpook]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1443442163' post='2874658']
The input capacitors on some guitar pedals are fine for guitars, but will shave some low end off the lower notes on a bass. Chaining several such pedals can make this even worse.

Many drive circuits (particularly TS types) also filter off the low-mids below about 700Hz to stop the driven signal becoming too muddy. Bass overdrives frequently have a blend control to mix in some unfiltered clean signal.

Modulation pedals designed for bass often work only on the mids and highs to prevent over-wobbly bass sounds.

I'm sure there are more differences...
[/quote]

Um.....what he said !

[colgraff]

Most of my pedals are bass specific but some (Sonuus Wahoo, TC looper, MXR phaser) aren't. Those three seem to work fine with my bass.

[paul_5]

depends on the effect; overdrive and distortion can be voiced specifically for guitar or bass (they'll cut off all the frequencies below a set frequency, and add distortion to anything above that), as can things like envelope filters - I used an old DOD FX25 filter for a while but it just cut all of the bass out of my signal. Choruses and Phasers designed for guitar can be a bit more forgiving on bass (EHX Small Clone and MXR Phase 45 spring to mind).

Bear in mind though that the much prized Boss OC-2 Octaver is technically a guitar pedal, sounds pretty good on my basses...

Edited October 2, 2015 by paul_5

[elephantgrey]

If you get a blend pedal and use a pedal intended for guitar, and you can blend in your clean tone and regain some low end.
I find that sticking a blended signal through a bass designed preamp then merges the and together so it sounds less like two separate instruments.

[operative451]

Thanks for the answers! I actually use my musical cohort's (guitar) POD for recorded stuff. Its taken some tweaking but we get some really nice sounds out of it. I am tempted by the B3 but don't reeaaaally need it as i like the sounds i get from what i've got. Digital gear is what confuses me the most, sample rates and bit depths and processors and wuh..? For instance why did zoom go from 32khz to 96khz to 44.1khz? Was the 96khz just a sales gimmick? And if 32khz is about equivalent to chrome tape, aren't we supposed to 'prefer' tape?

[operative451]

...And additionally, apparently bass amp speakers have a frequency response of between 2.5khz and 7khz so actually there's little point in a high sample rate anyway! Argh!

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='operative451' timestamp='1444125816' post='2880435']
...And additionally, apparently bass amp speakers have a frequency response of between 2.5khz and 7khz so actually there's little point in a high sample rate anyway! Argh!
[/quote]

The sampling rate frequency (44kHz / 96kHz) and the frequency response of the speakers are not to be confused. They have the same units but mean completely different things.

You need a high sampling rate to make sure your analogue to digital conversion doesn't lose any audible information (google the Nyquist sampling theorem to find out why). The frequency response of your speakers just tells you the range of frequencies your bass amp operates over.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='operative451' timestamp='1444125816' post='2880435']
...And additionally, apparently bass amp speakers have a frequency response of between 2.5khz and 7khz so actually there's little point in a high sample rate anyway! Argh!
[/quote]

You won't hear the sampling rate directly, but the sound quality of digital playback depends on the rate. Listen, on t'web, to samples done with an 8khz rate, and compare to higher rates (often multiples of 8, such as 16, 32, 64 khz etc...). Above 48khz won't have an audible difference, but could affect later treatment. It's a bit of an audio equivalent to pixel density for photos.

[ProfFrink]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1444133005' post='2880513']
The sampling rate frequency (44kHz / 96kHz) and the frequency response of the speakers are not to be confused. They have the same units but mean completely different things.

You need a high sampling rate to make sure your analogue to digital conversion doesn't lose any audible information (google the Nyquist sampling theorem to find out why). The frequency response of your speakers just tells you the range of frequencies your bass amp operates over.
[/quote]
[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1444139974' post='2880597']
You won't hear the sampling rate directly, but the sound quality of digital playback depends on the rate. Listen, on t'web, to samples done with an 8khz rate, and compare to higher rates (often multiples of 8, such as 16, 32, 64 khz etc...). Above 48khz won't have an audible difference, but could affect later treatment. It's a bit of an audio equivalent to pixel density for photos.
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure the OP is right for all practical purposes. I dare anyone to distinguish a bass-only recording done at 44kHz vs any other sampling rate. The only exception may possibly be recording with a lot of fuzz or similar effects that add a lot of high-frequency content, but arguably, since most of these are just crud addition of harmonic content and noise, any small difference is going to be negligible and/or can simply be attributed to "the tone" of the recoded player.

Edited October 6, 2015 by ProfFrink

[operative451]

Thanks guys! I'm talking about sample rate of digital effects going live rather than recording? So 32khz can convert sound up to 16khz, thats right isn't it? So anything above 16kz coming off my bass will be lost, but its a bass, not a 'treble' so, erm... i've also tested my crappy earholes using the tone generator in Audacity - My tinnitus is about 12-13 khz and the highest sound i can hear at all is 14khz. So it sounds alright to me... Probably sounds a scratchy mess to anyone else..!

[elephantgrey]

You can test sample rate aliasing in audacity. Change the samplerate to something low, like 5k, then get a tone that rises from like 1-5k. Once you hit 2.5k interesting things should start happing. Then see Bitcrushers for further craziness.

[ProfFrink]

Maybe I just lost track of the discussion, but are there any effects in current production that have a sampling rate of less than 44kHz?

For effect pedals, it seems to me that the more difficult issue may actually be the bit-per-sample, because these pedals need to be able to cover quite a wide range of input signal levels, so unless they employ some fancy analog circuitry to counter this they are bound to sacrifice some of the bits in order to have enough headroom for the full range of levels they need to support.

In any case, we know most of these effects sound good, and regarding tape, various tape-emulations seem to be pretty popular and will often be added to your recording anyway in the final mix.

[elephantgrey]

I think the only (potential) issue with digital effects these days is less bitdepth or samplerate, but latency.