Pukie Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I didn't want to hi jack the recent cruise ship work thread, but one of the things that came up there for people looking at that sort of thing was the need to know the 'standards'. Now I don't want to work on a cruise ship, and I can't read music anyway,.but in the never ending quest to improve my playing, I am curious as to what exactly people regard as the Jazz Standards that it would be necessary know? What is a standard anyway - Glenn Miller, Sinatra or is that big band not Jazz I tried googling it and Wiki has a MASSIVE list of things I never heard of, What's a good starting point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 The Real Book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 They're mostly but not necessarily, show tunes from the 30s, 40, 50s etc. Tunes like Autumn Leaves, When I fall in love, Someday my prince will come, All blues, All the things you are, My funny valentine, to name but a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) The 'Jazz Standards' are a whole series of songs, tunes, compositions, mostly (but not all...) from the '30s-'60s, played by many bands and formations, each with their own interpretation on the basic structure. There is a series of books with the melodies and chords (in notation...), and available in different keys, for bass, or brass, as well as the more common treble clef. They are known as 'Real Books'; the usual one for staring out would be Book 1, which contains several hundred of these tunes. Most come from American shows, or big band hits; there are few that are native UK, but most have been heard over the decades on the radio at one time or another. Players in function bands playing some jazz or swing numbers would be expected to have a fair few of these popular songs under their belt; sax players or 'comping' guitars and keys would be able to solo over 'em. Some random titles..? 'A Foggy Day' 'Blue Bossa' 'Darn That Dream' 'Falling In Love With Love' 'The Girl From Ipanema' ' Green Dolphin Street' 'How High The Moon' 'It Don't Mean A Thing'... Not to worry if you don't recognise the titles (it's an age thing...), but you've very likely heard most of those. These books are invaluable for learning new stuff, playing along to new concepts and reading in general, and serve for a lifetime, whether or not one plays in a big band, or jazz at all. Highly recommended to have a look at a few 'beginner' standards ('Satin Doll..?' 'Misty'..? One of my favourites...). I also found a website with the 'vanilla' arrangements (that's to say, unadorned with all sorts of variants...) to be extremely instructive for understanding what's going on with chord substitution and the like. Here's a published version... [center]The Art of Improvisation[/center] [center] … Creating real-time music through jazz improvisation …[/center] [center]*200 Standard Tunes for C Instruments*[/center] [center]by Bob Taylor[/center] [center]Taylor-James Publications[/center] Sorry for the lengthy post; hope this helps. Edited September 28, 2015 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 The list is endless but they are essentially a set of tunes that have become an established repertoire for Jazz musicians the world over. There are several lists you can google for that perport to be definitive but, in reality, the list is changing all of the time as some tunes are added and others fall into disuse. The real hardcore Jazzers tend to know these tunes by the hundred and are able to transpose them into any key at the drop of a (hi) hat. There are a range of fake books/real books (pretty much the same thing) that are legal and illegal that contain many but never all of the 'must know' standards. I do not consider myself to be a hard core Jazzer and only know about three. There are the show tunes standards but there are also 'Jazz' standards (often Parker, Miles Davis, John Coltrane heads etc but again the list is massive e.g.All Blues is not a show tune but it is known by almost everyone, tunes like Bolivia, Airegin, Tenor Madness, Monk tunes etc). This is a massive subject and one that can tie you up for life. A lot of Jazzers believe that, in order to make any headway into the music, you need to 'deal with' the standards but there are others who never bothered with them and find their own way - no roght or wrong, just different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 That is quite a question and, as Bilbo said, the list is endless. I have a CD loaded with eight various fake/real books and the iReal Pro loaded on my iPad lists 1300 numbers. Jazz, though, breaks down into all sorts of genres. A Dixie band will play all the old Trad numbers but will not be above including some up to date stuff. Assuming it's got a clarinet, there won't be many gigs without someone asking for Stranger on the Shore! A pickup jazz trio will play mostly stuff from the American Songbook, the old Gershwin/ Cole Porter/Jimmy Van Heusen et al stuff. Safe numbers that all the musos, even though they haven't played together before would be able to handle there and then. And a singer would have his or her favourites that could bolt on the front. Last night I played in a five piece. We did stuff by Miles, Sonny Rollins, Adderley and four by Benny Golson whose stuff I enjoy very much. The sax player brought charts along for all of us to make it easy and although it was not quite the safe standard stuff usually played it was a thoroughly enjoyable and satisfying gig because it stretched us a bit. Just a quick PS re the standard American (and a few British ones) show tunes. There are some sublime old shows that compare favourably with the guff that gets on the stage today - see also the dire stuff Elaine Page puts out on a Sunday. What makes a tune adaptable as a good/great jazz standard needs a whole more discussion. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Moondance. I'll get me coat.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I've played it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikay Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 This [url="http://www.jazzstudies.us/"]http://www.jazzstudies.us/[/url] is a great free online resource for 'standards' charts. You can even change the key (see drop down box under 'Fake/Real Book Index Search) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 [quote name='TheRev' timestamp='1443452617' post='2874806'] Moondance. I'll get me coat.. [/quote] Moondance is what we call a 'pop standard' which is shorthand for a diabolical turd that has nothing to do with Jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzneck Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 The BBC Light Programme. I'm wearing my coat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Depends on your market...you might be doing 'Nightingale', Valentine etc etc ....or something a bit more 'rad'.. Depends who you are playing for and the BL's line-up. A decent BL leader will prorbaly have a book of hundreds of tunes and a short stint out with them will take you through a wealth of 'jazz standards' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passinwind Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1443460047' post='2874906'] Moondance is what we call a 'pop standard' which is shorthand for a diabolical turd that has nothing to do with Jazz. [/quote] You're being far too kind Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 iReal Pro (as mentioned briefly above) is a great app that lets you install jazz standards onto it. It acts like an app version of the Real Book but also benefits from the ability to let you play along by piping the tune to a backing track. It lets you change the volume of several instruments so you can mute the bass in the backing track for example and play along. http://irealpro.com/ - really worth the dosh in my opinion. In fact I've heard musicians say it's worth buying an iPad and the app just to get the functionality of the app. However it's (to crudely describe it) essentially a bunch of chords charts with backing tunes. I don't think you get the notation for the actual lines played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maude Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 You'll have to excuse my ignorance here as this genre is most certainly not my cup of tea. Are these songs generally looked at in the same light as all the 'rock cover band' standards that all pub audiences love but most folks on here recoil at the very mention of, dakota, sex on fire, mustang sally etc? The way the Jazz standards have been described above makes them seem like they're the same old same old that every other jazz band churns out. Not looking to cause trouble, genuinely interested in how they are regarded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 [quote name='Maude' timestamp='1443464333' post='2874980'] You'll have to excuse my ignorance here as this genre is most certainly not my cup of tea. Are these songs generally looked at in the same light as all the 'rock cover band' standards that all pub audiences love but most folks on here recoil at the very mention of, dakota, sex on fire, mustang sally etc? The way the Jazz standards have been described above makes them seem like they're the same old same old that every other jazz band churns out. Not looking to cause trouble, genuinely interested in how they are regarded. [/quote] Well, there is 'jazz' and 'jazz' so depending on your 'jazz' gig depends on what standards are wheeled out. The jazz pad might include instrumentals of pop standards but played in the 'jazz' format which is verse, chorus, m8 etc etc ..and solos or 'rounds' of the whole band line-up. Or they might mean Trad..which often stands alone with the type of material they'll cover. Or they might mean Miles and Coltrane....or bits of all those jazz 'periods' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 You need to call up the spirit of jazz. Sell y'all's soul and neva look back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 [quote name='Maude' timestamp='1443464333' post='2874980'] You'll have to excuse my ignorance here as this genre is most certainly not my cup of tea. Are these songs generally looked at in the same light as all the 'rock cover band' standards that all pub audiences love but most folks on here recoil at the very mention of, dakota, sex on fire, mustang sally etc? The way the Jazz standards have been described above makes them seem like they're the same old same old that every other jazz band churns out. Not looking to cause trouble, genuinely interested in how they are regarded. [/quote] I'd say that these are looked upon by every musician, whatever their instrument, in a different light, depending on whether or not they're interested in jazz in general, working in big bands or cabaret style (such as cruise liners..?), want to improve their knowledge of modern music in a broad sense, are learning harmony and/or composition, want to read 'dots' or want a challenge, different from whatever they usually play. None of the above are exclusive, many may apply, and more. Not everyone appreciates these, in the same way as there are those that disdain reggae, or pop, or blues or... The list is long. Some find 'em interesting, others find 'em useless. A similar debate to 'flats or rounds'. There are musical snobs at both (all..?) ends of the spectrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorR Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 If you're new to jazz but wanted to explore its various styles and incarnations you could do worse than download this album, "#1 Jazz Album Ever!" by Various Artists https://itun.es/gb/XR-sA from iTunes 150 tracks for £5.99 including a huge range of all tine classic tunes by the artists they're most associated with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorR Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 [quote name='Maude' timestamp='1443464333' post='2874980'] You'll have to excuse my ignorance here as this genre is most certainly not my cup of tea. Are these songs generally looked at in the same light as all the 'rock cover band' standards that all pub audiences love but most folks on here recoil at the very mention of, dakota, sex on fire, mustang sally etc? The way the Jazz standards have been described above makes them seem like they're the same old same old that every other jazz band churns out. Not looking to cause trouble, genuinely interested in how they are regarded. [/quote] The ethos around the Jazz circuit seems to be quite different from the rock / pop circuit. With the latter if you play originals often you are seen as "creative", if you play covers often you seem to be regarded as somehow lesser. How many online forums have threads there the theme is, "How can people just play covers all the time. How rubbish is that? How rubbish are they?" etc. With jazz the standards (or let's face it, "the covers") they are just seen as a resource to be creative with - and interpretations can vary wildly from artist to artist. If you want to do originals, fine. If you want to play the standards, fine... And some of the greatest recordings and performances in jazz are purely covers, if you like. They aren't thought of as lesser art. Which, if you think about it is a bit like in classical music. No one would ever complain about an orchestra just playing covers of tunes by Beethoven, Mozart and Bach... It's just not the world view that they live within. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maude Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 So in a way the jazz standards are more like building blocks to do your own thing with rather than songs to try and reproduce note for note, bar for bar as rock/pop covers seem to be. Strange how almost polar opposites are expected from different genres. Although our band takes popular songs and reworks them into different styles, swing Sex Pistols, bluegrass Arctic Monkeys, rockabilly Outkast etc and it goes down a storm everywhere we play, so maybe the average pub crowd doesn't just want straight covers. Thanks for the replies and sorry to the op for the slight derailment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorR Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Exactly...here are a few examples that show the variation you can get from one standard/tune... Stella By starlight http://youtu.be/Iqs3w1Q5sto http://youtu.be/XGx1HvLV_NQ http://youtu.be/ytwXPKmdv7o A personal fave... Joe Pass http://youtu.be/jN0oEWuc_Ng http://youtu.be/AbJKyEE1_AE http://youtu.be/gm7oBctygOA Edited September 28, 2015 by TrevorR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbzxJuvbH08[/media] [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gjUANhT6l4[/media] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JNRkEkx6HQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJi7V9rHxz4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4EtzZB4AIM There is a version by John Abercrombie on his live trio recording with Marc Johnson and Peter Erskine that takes the tune far out. These versions all show the different perspectives each player can have on the same tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywalker Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I am just starting out with a quartet doing jazz standards (piano/sax/bass/drums) and finding it far more satisfying than rock/blues covers with my other band. I am finding this a great resource:- http://www.learnjazzstandards.com/ Hope it helps Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.