72deluxe Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) So the Winery Dogs' new album turned up today and I have had a listen briefly. What does everyone think of it, those who have heard it? I find Kotzen's voice nasally and it sounds like he needs to blow his nose, IMHO. His stint in Mr Big was very different to Gilbert's, and I miss the obvious and clear riffs; Kotzen uses a lot of open strings or ringing chords instead of riffs so I can't hear an obvious hook or melody to the songs. Portnoy seems to be drumming at 11 (or is that mixing compression?) but his cymbal-heavy drumming seems a bit busy? He probably couldn't get away with a straight simple beat as all his fans would complain. Could just be me being tired. Sheehan needs to do more tapping - the solo spots on the album are far too short and there is no interplay that I can hear on first listen. An interesting note is that Sheehan thanks EBS in the sleeve notes (obviously due to his EBS Sheehan pedal) but then thanks Suncoast Analog, who interestingly make the B1p preamp, a pedal-sized clone of the Pearce preamps that Sheehan uses. So it would be interesting to know which one he is using to snarl through - EBS or Suncoast! Must save up for one of them if only to test the midrange capability of all speakers I own. EDIT: I also think the bass is too quiet? I can hear guitar double tracked and panned left/right and Portnoy's bass drum like a gunshot in my ears but I can't hear Sheehan. Perhaps I am going deaf. Second half of the album is better and more generously mixed (everything isn't on 11) and stuff is spaced out better me thinks. Edited October 9, 2015 by 72deluxe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Haven't heard the album yet (will pick it up next week) but gotta disagree about Kotzen - brilliant singer, one of the best! The thing about the first album was it wasn't just about the shredding at all, the songs were very strong. As Kotzen was the chief songwriter, it helps if you are a fan! The songs are similar to a lot of his solo stuff and it is clear that he is the musical force in the band. It's not the riffs and playing that are the focus... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Didn't know they had one due, will check it out. Enjoyed the first one and it was a great gig in Birmingham at the Slade rooms, could have done with a bit more air-con though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameronj279 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Also never realised it was out. Shall give a listen over the weekend. Thoroughly enjoyed the first one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leroydiamond Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Haven't heard the new album yet but really enjoyed the first album. The songwriting was first class, both in terms of lyrics and music. The first album was that good, it might be a hard act to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 [quote name='72deluxe' timestamp='1444396381' post='2882901'] An interesting note is that Sheehan thanks EBS in the sleeve notes (obviously due to his EBS Sheehan pedal) but then thanks Suncoast Analog, who interestingly make the B1p preamp, a pedal-sized clone of the Pearce preamps that Sheehan uses. So it would be interesting to know which one he is using to snarl through - EBS or Suncoast! [/quote] Having seen a few iterations of Billy's rig it could very well be both! He used 2 of the EBS pedals anyway so one of them may have been ousted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odysseus Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I've had it on repeat all week. I love it. A good follow up to the first album, and not lacking much at all IMO. Doubtless, others will disagree, but it's all good for me. I'd love to go and see them live, I missed out last time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 It ticks all the right boxes here, it's a good album. Loved Kotzen for many years, from the first vocal stuff on Stevie Salas' Electric Pow-Wow album, through the solo stuff/Mother's Head Family Reunion and of course I'm more than familiar with Dream Theater too. Have to say that while I'm more than aware of Sheehan's talent and legacy, I do find his tone quite hideous. I concur with the OP, the bass is too quiet and in addition, there's simply no balls in his tone. His playing is lost when his parts are up front; all the widdly stuff lacks whump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madshadows Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Must admit when I played the HOT SREAK CD the first time it didn't strike me as being as good as the debut album but after a few more plays I love it !!, some amazing tracks on it, probably not as immediate as the first record but it's definitely a grower, well worth buying IMHO, great playing and singing and terrific songs John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72deluxe Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) With regard to Kotzen's singing, it's great when he belts it out, it's more of his soft singing that sounds like he's got a cold or has a sweet in his mouth whilst singing. He can sing better than me, that's for sure. I have most of Kotzen's albums and know he's good (on the first album he did he never stops shredding over his own singing haha) but don't personally enjoy his soft singing. It is good that he changed his playing style to be with fingers instead of pick in order to reinvent himself, but with pick you can hear the start of the note clearly (it's percussive). With his finger playing, I find his fast runs hard to discern the start and end of notes, kind of like just sliding up and down a fretless guitar :-) Personal opinion, of course. I found the second half of the album more appealing but as others have said it is growing on me. The songs are good, I am not sure the double tracked guitar amid the midrange bass and much cymbalage leads to clarity. Better speakers are probably in order (or a hearing test). Did anyone else notice that the start of Oblivion is very similar to the start of Dream Theater's "In the presence of enemies part 1"???? Look it up on YouTube. Compared to Niacin's recent release where Sheehan is very audible and cuts through (their "Deep" album is one of their best IMO and his tone isn't too fizzy on it), it is sad that you can hardly hear him on this album :-( the guitar is too loud in comparison, and Portnoy's bass drum dominates to the entire bottom end. Pity, as I like Sheehan's playing and tone (it has got less fizzy in recent years). I thought the explosion of reverb on the drums in track 10 halfway through was very good and changes the feel of the song to be wide and "big". Amazing what sensitive mixing does. Edit: I know playing isn't meant to be the focus but you can have both, as Billy and Portnoy built their careers on pyrotechnic playing. I would hope the albums aren't a Kotzen solo affair with famous backing players. That isn't interesting - listen to Them Crooked Vultures to hear how bad that can be :-) Edit again: Perhaps I was too harsh on the album, as always! It is definitely growing. Edited October 10, 2015 by 72deluxe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I've heard some of the album, I like Billy's playing, but don't like his tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 [quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1444480782' post='2883567'] I like Billy's playing, but don't like his tone. [/quote]+1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odysseus Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I'm not a massive fan of Billy's tone, but that's who he is and that's what he does, and it seems to be a big part of whatever band he's in. As soon as you hear it you know who the bassist is. There are plenty of singers whose voices I don't particularly like, but you know who it is as soon as they open their gob, and that individuality is a large part of their persona - Axl Rose, Ozzy, Liam Gallagher, Brian Johnson. Same principle, I guess. It works. *shrug* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I saw him with Mr Big when he and Paul Gilbert were swapping runs just before the song. Billy was playing completely clean toned; lovely. Then he trod on a pedal and the grind took over; not nearly as nice to my ears. Others' appreciation will vary of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kulabula Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I'm with Pete. I love Kotzen. He sounds like rock!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I have never liked any of the bands BS has been in.....just never been grasped by their music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 [quote name='kulabula' timestamp='1444494947' post='2883693'] I'm with Pete. I love Kotzen. He sounds like rock!!! [/quote]Yeah, top player, always has been. He's a Tele player, which is unusual amongst the shredmeisters and sets him apart (I do love a Telecaster). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 [quote name='kulabula' timestamp='1444494947' post='2883693'] I'm with Pete. I love Kotzen. He sounds like rock!!! [/quote] Hey Andy! Just setting off to see you tonight - have a good gig...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I loved Mr Big, but there's something about the Dogs that leaves me a bit, meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I think it's a great rock album. Great playing, great songs. If anything I'd say this sounds more a band album than the first. The first album has Kotzen stamped all over it (nothing wrong with that IMO ). There's alaways going to be a lot of Kotzen in these albums though as he seems to put more into and spends more time on them. Sheehan and Portnoy are always on other projects. Kotzen has been playing figerstyle for some time now, his last 3 albums and definitely the previous Winery Dogs album. For me, combined with using a tele, really works IMO. It's less cliché. Sheehan has changed his set up lately, and this may account for being less obvious in the mix. I was fortunate to see them play last year and it was brilliant. Kotzen made my jaw literally drop, he's that good. He is rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72deluxe Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 Having listened further and repeatedly, it is a good album yes. I was too harsh in my initial judgement. It works very well as a "band" instead of just three solo artists playing together. I was also too harsh about Portnoy - he might bash the cymbal too much to fill in the spaces IMHO But having just received Tony MacAlpine's Concrete Gardens album and heard Aquiles Priester drumming, I think I can safely say that Portnoy is sparse by comparison! I literally cannot hear a thing that is going on due to the incessant drumming and subbass by Pete Griffin. Sheehan sounds clear as a bell by comparison. So it's all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemarseillebass Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) I'm agreeing with madshadows here. This album took a little longer to grasp, it's not as obvious as the first. Sheehan changed compressors, the way I hear it through Audiolab/Q Acoustics stuff is his bass sounds kinda glassier? There's less in your face growl, it's more of a smoother gnarly tone to me, but I am 45 and a tiny bit deaf. What? It's a broader album that risks appealing to more people, if you can call it a risk. Saw them first time round - bloody epic live band, a real bar band feel that played like they'd just left school and seeing them again in a couple months. Can't wait! Edited December 21, 2015 by leemarseillebass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naetharu Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I only came across these a few weeks back: so far I love the new album. I'm off to see them with my band mates early in the new year. Anyone else seeing them at their London gig (was the O2 outhouse but I think it's now changed...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I don't think it's as good as the first album but there's still a hell of a lot to like about them. Kotzen is a great singer. They're definitely one of the more interesting rock bands around at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72deluxe Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 I saw them last night in Birmingham and they were exceedingly good. The bass was phenomenally loud, and I was at the back. Billy's biamping is very clever - there was plenty of low-end bass (leaning on any of the fixtures showed that they were vibrating mentally) but plenty of midrange snarl to clearly hear what he was doing. So I take back my stupid first appraisal of the new album! I posted a few videos of the gig, including the bass solo (halfway though this): [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1CYPBR6d30"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1CYPBR6d30[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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