Whats wrong with my sound? yes, I need help, cheers

[Che]

Im new to bass and am trying to get the sound right. Especially the low end which I never used to this extent for my guitars (yes I come from guitar background).

I played this improvisation through my 'Zoom B1on' multi fx pedal and then into Reaper. It seems to sound "wrong". It sounds strange kind of numbing in my ears.

I need your experienced ears to tell me what you hear here being wrong.

Details;
Jazz Bass with new D'addario 45-100 Nickle strings
'Zoom B1on' via 'Behringer U-Phoria UM2' (I used Hi-Z input) and then into 'Reaper'

[url="https://soundcloud.com/papa-dusko/bass-improvisation-on-zoom-b1on"]https://soundcloud.c...on-on-zoom-b1on[/url]

Thanks

Edited October 11, 2015 by Che

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Che' timestamp='1444578044' post='2884237']... tell me what you hear here being wrong...
[/quote]

Nowt.

Any other questions..?

...

...

OK, I'll expand slightly. It's completely subjective, hearing a 'solo' bass (or 'solo' any instrument, really...). Context is all. If that's supposed to be how you want it to sound, alone, solo, then all I'd say is that, for my tastes, I'd use much less reverb. Other than that, and from an EQ perspective, there's nothing wrong with that at all. 'Twould be a different kettle of fish if there was a drum/guitar/key/horn section alongside. Still a judgement call, of course, but at least there'd be other stuff filling in (or fighting for...) sonic space. 'Solo', anything goes.
This may not be what you're wanting to hear. Sorry.

([i]Disclaimer: I'm an old, deaf, drummer...[/i] )

[ezbass]

Pretty much what Dad said. A bit too 'wet' with reverb for my own personal taste which I think robs the low end of a little authority, but others may like that.

[Che]

Ok I see. I thought Bass is to sound like a Bass (solo or not) thats the impression I've got from Bassists. And if there isnt enough low end in the sound it lacks "b.lls"

[quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]and from an EQ perspective, there's nothing wrong with that at all. 'Twould be a different kettle of fish if there was a drum/guitar/key/horn section alongside.[/font][/color][/quote]

Ok, cool here we go then, another of my amateur fiddlings with guitar, bass and drum beat (Digitech RP70's drum machine)
(please excuse the bad mixing)

[url="https://soundcloud.com/papa-dusko/floating-slap-version-3"]https://soundcloud.c...-slap-version-3[/url]

How do you feel now about my bass EQ with guitar and drums alongside?

Edited October 11, 2015 by Che

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Che' timestamp='1444585343' post='2884300']...
How do you feel now about my bass EQ with guitar and drums alongside?
[/quote]

Ah, there you go, you see..! Quite a different kettle of fish..! [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]There isn't enough low end in the sound; it lacks "b.lls"..! [/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]As an experiment, try taking your Reaper bass trac[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]k, and duplicating it. Take all the fx away from this duplicate track, leaving just the raw bass line. Now mix the raw track and the present 'bass with fx' track; you should hear the low end coming back in, in parallel with the fx track. Mix to taste. Still too much reverb on the bass for me; I'd not have any at all on the bass itself, but may add an effect on a Master track, so that all have a similar 'hall' or 'room' sound together. This'll help bind them, sonically, into the same space.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I'll forgive the drums, for now, but they'd need a whole subject in themselves. Fine for messing about, of course, and well done for getting so much together, naturally. One step at a time, and don't be over-ambitious from the outset. It'll come, with perseverance and patience. I won't embarass myself by posting my very first forays into this mysterious universe; bravo for that, too.[/font][/color]

[Che]

Thats exactly the advice I need
[quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]As an experiment, try taking your Reaper bass trac[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]k, and duplicating it. Take all the fx away from this duplicate track, leaving just the raw bass line. Now mix the raw track and the present 'bass with fx' track; you should hear the low end coming back in, in parallel with the fx track. Mix to taste. ... [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]reverb ...[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]but may add an effect on a Master track, so that all have a similar 'hall' or 'room' sound together. This'll help bind them, sonically, into the same space.[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][/quote]

Thanks Dad!

[Dad3353]

[sharedmedia=core:attachments:167485]

[Che]

Thanks to you Dad I now have a great Amp plugin to work with This is the last track I have for you to give your opinion (after this one I will have a clear guideline how to do this EQ-ing etc). There are 2 bass lines (not the same) and 1 guitar line (ignore the drum machine please). Can you please tell me how you feel/hear the balance between all 3 instruments (yes ignore the drums and the Reverb too )
[url="https://soundcloud.com/papa-dusko/bee-and-the-withering-flower-remastered"]https://soundcloud.c...ower-remastered[/url]

Thanks for all your help!

Edited October 11, 2015 by Che

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Che' timestamp='1444602348' post='2884508']...please tell me how you feel/hear the balance between all 3 instruments...
[/quote]

Jolly good..! Nicely panned, to separate the three, and the drums are very discreet. A 'drone' guitar, acting as a harmonic support, a continuum on which to lean. The centred bass plays its role as the lower underpinning, filling in the bottom end with enough 'gurgling' to maintain 'movement'. The right channel 'lead', or melody bass is 'singing' over these two props, slightly more 'forward' in the mix, as it should be, as the primary focus of attention. The backing two are present enough without intruding into this 'lead' space. The EQ is fine, for me, all is there, nicely balanced. A note out of 20..? OK, I'll give it 18.5. No, hang the expense; 19, there..!
Others may have differing opinions, of course (but they're wrong..! ).

[Che]

Thanks for taking time Dad Good man! Excuse my ignorance but what means 'drone' guitar (you can call me Forrest Gump from now on)

[Dad3353]

Forrest...

A 'drone', in the 'musical' sense, is a constant, recurring note, tone; a 'pedal' note, for instance, or those horrible sticks sticking out of the top of a set of bagpipes. In the context of your piece, it's not quite as severe a definition as that, merely to intimate that its role is to underpin, to lay a harmonic canvas, giving some sense to the bass and melody lines. Think of it as the taut wire upon which the sky walker does his daring dance. No-one really takes much notice of it, but without it...
You asked what I felt; that's it. Does it make sense..? No promises there, I'm afraid...

[Che]

OK thanks for clearing one more thing for me. You can now send me the bill

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Che' timestamp='1444640507' post='2884632']...You can now send me the Bill
[/quote]

Why, what have you done..?

[Che]

You helped me immensely in the last few days, hence its time I get the bill (I will pay you with a huge thank you) and get off your back for now otherwise I might end up having more such 'Forrest Gump' questions as "what means drone guitar"

[Dad3353]

Dear Mr. Gump...

Please follow the linkage of quotes featured below, and admire with what subtlety the interpretation of the text may be affected by the simple substitution of an Upper Case Character.
No fee will be charged for this enlightenment; thank you for your indulgence.

Yours sincerely

Mr. D. A. Smartypants.

[quote name='Che' timestamp='1444640507' post='2884632']
...You can now send me [b]the bill[/b]
[/quote]
[quote name='Che' timestamp='1444640507' post='2884632']
...You can now send me [b]the Bill[/b]
[/quote]
[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1444656944' post='2884811']
Why, what have you done..?
[/quote]

The 'bill'..? Changed to the 'Bill'..? The Police..? The Fuzz..? No..? "Send me the Bill." "Why, what have you done..?" Why do you need the Police..? Get it..? I cunningly switched the lower case 'b' for an upper case 'B', thus altering the sense of the phrase. Neat, huh..? Yeah..!

No..? Oh well...

[Che]

I see your location is France I must be missing that French-style humor sorry, and also English is not my mother tongue so its easy to miss on things wordy ...

[Che]

Ah, now I Googled Bill + Police and it came out as 'Old Bill' for British Police LOL Ok now I get it! Im no Brit hence the confusion but its never too late to get it I guess

[Dad3353]

[sharedmedia=core:attachments:167485]

Ah, yes, I, too, forgot that you're 'off-shore'. 'The Bill' was a popular UK TV series, starring the police solving crimes and stuff. It's a term of endearment usually, unless one is a criminal. ("Oi..! Scarper..! It's the Bill..!"). Oh well, education is a wonderful thing, I suppose. I, too, learn more each day, although not much Danish. My sum total of knowledge could be resumed as Copenhagen, bacon, Hamlet, pastries and Sandi Toksvig, sorry.

([i]Oh yes; and butter. I'd forgotten butter[/i]...)

[Che]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1444671179' post='2884981']

Oh well, education is a wonderful thing, I suppose. I, too, learn more each day, although not much Danish. My sum total of knowledge could be resumed as Copenhagen, bacon, Hamlet, pastries and Sandi Toksvig, sorry.

([i]Oh yes; and butter. I'd forgotten butter[/i]...)
[/quote]

Is that all you know about Denmark my dear sir ? what about, (since you are a musician) TC electronic and Carl Martin ?

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Che' timestamp='1444720165' post='2885230']
Is that all you know about Denmark my dear sir ? what about, (since you are a musician) TC electronic and Carl Martin ?
[/quote]

Maybe, but a drummer, old fruit. Let's see, now; 'Electronic'... 'Electronic'... Nope. Doesn't ring a bell. Carl... Carl... Carl Palmer..? Carl Allen..? Carl Coleti..? Jimmy Carl Black..? Nope, no 'Martin' there. Sorry.

[Che]

[Che]

I know I should be in bed beside my wife at this time but I just can't stop playing with all this recording and bass stuff
I just made a short instrumental with 2 basses. I am trying to learn how to pan the instruments and how to complement them in the same sonic space. I gave the lead bass more Mids and took lots of Mids away from the rhythm bass. I also gave much more low end to the rhythm bass. I panned the rhythm bass to the right around 20% and lead bass to the left 8% I could go louder with the lead bass but I just didn't feel like pushing the rhythm bass far into the background it just has that umph that feel right to be close to the front especially the second part of the tune.

If you have time please do post your opinion. I would like to learn from your experience
[url="https://soundcloud.com/papa-dusko/2-basses-over-midnight"]https://soundcloud.c...s-over-midnight[/url]

Edited October 13, 2015 by Che

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Che' timestamp='1444776845' post='2886022']...
If you have time please do post your opinion...
[/quote]

Sounds just fine to me. The panning is good, the separation and EQ differences work well, and the levels nicely balanced between the 'lead' and the 'rhythm'. Not too much messing about with pedals and such, so nice, clear playing. As an experiment, I'd say it was successful. As the basis for further composition, you're on the right track.
As I've said before, I'm a deaf old dodderer with poor taste and worse hearing; this gives me the enormous advantage of not being much bothered with 'tinkering'. I have more of a 'broad sweep' style; to my ears, if it's less than 3db it's not worth worrying over, and the difference between 8 and 18% leaves me perplex. It's true that one has to take more care when more instruments need blending, separating and jostling into place, but even then, I'm not the one to ask about nuance or tonal finesse. Others may have more sensitive notions; to me the piece sounded just fine. I'd be very happy to keep tracks sounding like that.

Now get to bed.

[Che]

Thanks Dad much appreciated!

You also seem to be a Night Owl. You are not one of those Vampire folks, are ya

And good morning to you from a grey and very damp Denmark! This bloody damp weather is causing me all sorts of joint problems; 2 weeks ago left shoulder pain, then a few days ago lower back pain, this morning right shoulder pain and I'm only 40 for crying out loud.
Actually my problems started at about the same time when I've got this bass of mine. Note, I never played bass before only guitard stuff so maybe my body is trying to adjust to the very much different instrument, in both the ergonomic and sonic sense.

Off to coffee sipping ...

[Che]

Ah one more thing Dad; when you pan lets say 2-4 instruments do you ever go for radical panning like 80-100%? For example drums in the middle, bass all the way to the left and rhythm guitar all the way to the right and flute just slightly panned to lets say left? Or do you keep the instruments rather close to each other? Also do you know of anyone radically panning instruments and still sounding good?

Thanks!