mixingwithtom Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 This is looking wicked!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I'm not a huge fan of the usual arm cut through veneer, but I'm looking forward to you extending the cut all round the body. This bass is going to look terrific Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon. Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 [quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1445862275' post='2894749'] Here it is in the sash clamps...I'd just wiped the excess glue off with a damp cloth and just look at that figuring! This is pretty much the colour and effect it will be when it's sanded and finished Close up, there's quilting and bird's-footing and all-sorts going on! [/quote] That looks amazing! Sort of reminds me of the da Vinci anatomy drawings, where he shows all the muscle groups... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 [quote name='Simon.' timestamp='1446718767' post='2901650'] That looks amazing! Sort of reminds me of the da Vinci anatomy drawings, where he shows all the muscle groups... [/quote] Thanks, Simon! Sort of know where you're coming from...similarly, this myrtle veneer (applied to a Yamaha fretless) always reminds me of schoolbook drawings of a lung dissection : I think maybe we both need to get out more... Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 (edited) Rain has stopped play temporarily (my workshop is my back patio) but the exciting news is that all the rest of the timber has arrived: A couple of lovely straight and true outer mahogany neck splices and walnut inner splice and a nice ebony fingerboard, slotted to 24 fret 34" from David Dyke...and some excellent wenge 1.5mm constructional veneer from The Wood Veneer Hub for the demarcation between the camphor top and alder back. So ref my sometimes unorthodox way of going about things, I'm interested if anyone does the same as me ref the angled headstock. I've seen some great scarfe-jointed headstocks (by some great builders) but generally I'm not keen on the visual impact of a standard scarfe. But - unless you want to go down the 50 years and counting Gibson debacle of broken headstocks - I do like the extra strength of the scarfe. So what I do, is scarfe the inner splice and leave the outer splices alone. For those who don't know what I'm talking about - a scarfe joint cuts and flips the headstock end so that the grain direction is along the headsock, eliminating the very dodgy grain direction at the nut / volute area of the neck found on a standard cut shape: My logic is that, doing this on the inner splice and leaving the outer splices as straight-grained blanks you still get the extra strength, but it is hidden. Anyone else do this? Edited November 5, 2015 by Andyjr1515 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scojack Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 (edited) I have done something similar in the past although I glue my headstock under the neck wood which eventually pushes the join well into the headstock. I would then remove some material from the sides of the headstock wood and then glue in some 'wings'. This had the effect of hiding the scarf join completely from the sides with two unjointed pieces running down each side of the headstock (hope this makes sense). Now i don't bother, i leave the scarf join visible at the side of the headstock (it is covered by top/bottom veneers though), if its a good tight join you don't even notice it. This way i can start with a very slim neck blank (~20mm) and don't waste as much material. Ian Edited November 5, 2015 by scojack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 [quote name='scojack' timestamp='1446735678' post='2901873'] I have done something similar in the past although I glue my headstock under the neck wood which eventually pushes the join well into the headstock. I would then remove some material from the sides of the headstock wood and then glue in some 'wings'. This had the effect of hiding the scarf join completely from the sides with two unjointed pieces running down each side of the headstock (hope this makes sense). Now i don't bother, i leave the scarf join visible at the side of the headstock (it is covered by top/bottom veneers though), if its a good tight join you don't even notice it. This way i can start with a very slim neck blank (~20mm) and don't waste as much material. Ian [/quote] Interesting pointers, Ian. I suppose the fatal flaw for me doing the more conventional approach is that telling 'if its a good tight join...' proviso Thanks - useful stuff. I'm picking up a disc sander tomorrow that might get my joints a bit flatter, squarer and straighter. On the build after this one, I might give it a whirl (excusing the pun) Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba_the_gut Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Interesting discussion. I haven't ever tried to do a scarf joint - might have a go on a few scraps and see if I can get it anywhere near accurate enough. Is there any particular angle that should be aimed for? I'd guess around 10 to 15 degrees, but that is a guess!! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 [quote name='Jabba_the_gut' timestamp='1446814913' post='2902564'] Interesting discussion. I haven't ever tried to do a scarf joint - might have a go on a few scraps and see if I can get it anywhere near accurate enough. Is there any particular angle that should be aimed for? I'd guess around 10 to 15 degrees, but that is a guess!! Cheers [/quote] Anything that gets an acceptable break angle for the strings at the nut, so usually, yes...10 - 15 degrees. I've gone for 11 degrees for no particular reason other than it's closer to 10 than 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scojack Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Think mines is 13 if i remember correctly, i made a router jig for this but it was eons ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 I know you all think I'm bonkers, but this is what I end up with - below you see the centre-splice scarfe (scarf?) has been cut, flipped and glued and now the resulting splice assemply is being glued to one of the mahogany outer splices. You can see the grain direction of the inner splice where the headstock will eventually be: I offset the inner splice by 11mm to allow the 9mm deep truss rod to be just slotted in with a 2mm capping strip without the need for routing (the inner splice is 6mm wide - the width of the truss rods I use): Later this evening I should be able to glue and clamp the other outer splice...then I have an assembled neck blank ready for eventual thicknessing, routing and bandsawing to outline shape. Thanks for looking Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_derby Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Bonkers? Maybe. Skilled and talented? Definitely. Keep the info coming Andy. The local forecast is mostly dry for tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 [quote name='Len_derby' timestamp='1446927758' post='2903625'] Bonkers? Maybe. Skilled and talented? Definitely. Keep the info coming Andy. The local forecast is mostly dry for tomorrow. [/quote] Well actually, you do know that I'm bonkers - no maybe about it OK - bit more progress. Everybody repeat the mantra after me:- "You can never have too many clamps!" You can see clearly the ready-made truss-rod slot here. Super accurate and finished timber from David Dyke once more, by the way... Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 A couple of hours of dry weather and a bit more progress! I've slimmed down the 3-piece neck to final width (not worth the picture), ready to glue to the wings, and bandsawn the top: For once my bandsaw was relatively on song, so it's pretty close to final. I might dispense with routing to finish and hand-finish this instead, then use this as the template for the bearing guided trim of the alder....I'll think about it a bit more as I have, in the past, 'reshaped' a template, and that wouldn't be good of it happens to be also the top and not an mdf template! The bridge has arrived so I can now also work out the neck angles and heights. Weather permitting, this should see the neck band-sawn to outline shape and neck, back and top glued up by the end of next week. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Great stuff. I think I'd make an MDF intermediate template though, even if you use the top as a bearing guide. It would cut a lot easier and be less likely to incur mishap. I'd probably draw round the top and then shape the MDF by hand myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 [quote name='Norris' timestamp='1447282098' post='2906456'] Great stuff. I think I'd make an MDF intermediate template though, even if you use the top as a bearing guide. It would cut a lot easier and be less likely to incur mishap. I'd probably draw round the top and then shape the MDF by hand myself [/quote] I agree, Norris Forgot to mention, I bonded the wenge to the camphor the other day. The degree of demarcation will be like this: Today I made more progress but imgur is acting up a bit - I'll post it later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) Switched to photobucket temporarily! So, first of all, tidied up the camphor top using a bearing guided edge router bit: The spent quite a bit of time checking heights, angles, distances in terms of bridge position, nut position, fretboard thickness, bridge height, etc.. before taking down the angle of the headstock and truing up the top of the neck: As you can see, I use a long length of aluminium box section and with abrasive paper double-sided-taped to one of the faces. Acts as a great flatness checking beam as well as a sanding beam. The bridge is going to be set fairly well back to shorten the feel of neck length (34"). It will help the balance too - the alder is already quite light and will be chambered on the top bout and horn. Here are the relative positions of everything. The neck's what I call a "|_|" profile and a bit deeper than many basses,but I'm sure FuNkShUi will get used to it : Edited November 13, 2015 by Andyjr1515 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 It already looks awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 [quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1447441885' post='2907757'] It already looks awesome. [/quote] Thanks ezbass. Do you like the biplane look? I think it might catch on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 [quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1447449123' post='2907812'] Do you like the biplane look? I think it might catch on [/quote] Gives the tone an airy quality no doubt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Looking great Andy!! I'll start my forearm and grip exercises now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 [quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1447496649' post='2908025'] Looking great Andy!! I'll start my forearm and grip exercises now [/quote] That's the spirit A 28kg bass with a 2" neck never hurt anyone! In the meantime, the weather has closed in again so I've used the time for a bit of planning for the next phases. First of all, I've sent off a profile gauge for FuNkShUi to measure the depth and profile shapes of his favourite playing bass so that I can get the neck as close to same the general feel as I can. Basically, FuNkShUi will take the measurements and profiles like this: ... and send me back the results like this: The other thing I've done is jotted down the best sequence for the next steps. This is where, as many of you know, I am sometimes a bit unconventional. The [i]conventional[/i] way would be to glue the alder wings to the neck, flatten the top and then add the camphor top. Some of you will know that - for a solid body - I actually rout a slot in the body and then slide the neck into the slot. I'm comfortable with that approach and there is a lot of edge carving to do, where I could do with the neck not being in the way. Sooooo, this is what I will do: [list] [*]Straighten up the alder pieces and add a wenge demarcation veneer to the sides [*]Wrapping the neck in clingfilm so it doesn't get glued, glue the alder pieces to the camphor with the neck in place simply acting as a spacer. [*]Remove the neck from the glued body, then finish-rout the alder using the camphor top as a template. [*]Carve the body edges [*]re-slot in the neck and glue [/list] That's probably clear as mud...it should make more sense when I do it for real and post the photos The thing I [i]will[/i] do before gluing either the alder or the neck, of course, is rout the weight-relieving chambers and control cable runs. Thanks, as always, for the nice words and encouragement Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6v6 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 That's an interesting approach, is it a problem that you can't clamp across the wings to get them super-tight against the side of the neck (because they'll be glued to the top)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 [quote name='6v6' timestamp='1447677958' post='2909405'] That's an interesting approach, is it a problem that you can't clamp across the wings to get them super-tight against the side of the neck (because they'll be glued to the top)? [/quote] Hi 6v6 I'm actually not fully decided of the best way, except it definitely won't be the wings first. The reason for the latter is that it is the relationship between the top and the neck that is critical. The top will be glued to the top of a recess cut into the neck. Just done that routing, actually. Still got to finish-fit the joint, but you probably get the broad idea: Now I [i]could[/i] glue the top to the neck, and then add the wings, clamping on both axes (wings to top and wings to neck). The trouble is, it is sooo easy when dealing with loose components for there to be a slight rock here, or misalignment there and you then find that the neck plus fretboard is no longer at the right angle for decent action height at the bridge. What I found with my solid-body slotted approach - as a helpful side effect - was that I could dry fit the neck and make ABSOLUTELY sure it was going to be at the right angle. If not, then I could always sand or scrape a tiny correction to the neck/body platform on the neck itself, then re-try the fit before gluing it in. My last build illustrates: The reason I won't be gluing the wings to the neck first it that everything would have to be absolutely smack on for the top to then fit tight against both the neck and wings. Everything would need to be completely flat and square, but at the exact depth in relation to the top of the neck. Anything not smack on will then be a real problem because it would result in sanding , which then changes the dimensions and fit - and I don't have the skills or equipment to be able to get it that smack on... I don't know if the above makes any sense? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6v6 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 That makes a lot of sense, thanks for clarifying! Build looks great btw, very inspirational to see what you're achieving, particularly given the lack of dedicated workshop space & machinery! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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