Working out bass parts by ear - any tips/methods?

[Naetharu]

Hi folks,

In an attempt to become a better bass player I've banned myself from using TAB for the time being and I'm trying to learn songs by ear instead. However, I am finding it quite difficult. Mainly because quite often the bass tracks (at least on noisy rock-style songs) are buried deep in the mix.

I've got some good headphones to make sure I can hear things as clearly as possible, but are there any good tips/tricks/systematic methods that I might try to make things a little easier?

All the best

James

[Number6]

I find it's a case of listen, listen and listen again. Over time your ear will become more attuned to picking out the basslines.

[discreet]

[quote name='Number6' timestamp='1444779183' post='2886041']
I find it's a case of listen, listen and listen again. Over time your ear will become more attuned to picking out the basslines.
[/quote]

Yes. When I was in covers bands I never used tabs or charts. It's a fact that most people don't listen properly to music and don't understand that the sum of a song is greater than its parts. So what you think the bass is playing is inevitably not so, and that's why it seems impossible to work out. But you can train yourself to listen more effectively. As 6 says, repeated forensic listening is where it's at.

[Roland Rock]

If I need to learn a song, I'll usually do it by ear. I found that being familiar with chord tones and chord progressions helps a lot - it makes it easier to anticipate what will come next, and that understanding also helps you to play around with the line a bit later on.

[Silvia Bluejay]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1444802172' post='2886075']
If I need to learn a song, I'll usually do it by ear. I found that being familiar with chord tones and chord progressions helps a lot - it makes it easier to anticipate what will come next, and that understanding also helps you to play around with the line a bit later on.
[/quote]

This. The first thing I try to determine is the initial key and any modulation from it further on in the song. That will help me predict what chords to expect, although it's also wise to keep in mind the occurring of passing notes, chromatic fills, etc.
Listening to the highest possible quality recording/MP3, with the highest possible quality headphones, will help too, of course.
Having said that, there will be sections where the bass is simply inaudible or so muddy you can't make it out. In that case, if you know what key you're supposed to be in, you can provide your own suitable bassline. It's great fun

[FuNkShUi]

I will split the song up into its parts.
Usually it's Intro, verse, pre chorus, chorus, and a bridge.
Sometimes not even that many parts!
Then listen, play, re-listen, play and so on until i have it.
I don't often worry about getting it exactly the same as the song unless the bassline is the main riff of the song.
Put your own slant on it. Aslong as you don't go too far from the original, you're golden

[discreet]

[quote name='bluejay' timestamp='1444805969' post='2886099']
Listening to the highest possible quality recording/MP3, with the highest possible quality headphones, will help too, of course.
[/quote]

This is very much a given. I listen on full-range studio monitors. You have to be able to hear all the information on the recording. Cheap earbuds or laptop speakers just won't cut it.

And get hold of a proper high-quality version of the track. Some YouTube audio (for example) is just terrible.

Edited October 14, 2015 by discreet

[SICbass]

All of the information above is spot on, especially repeated hearing in order to check and re-check "did I hear what I thought I heard? Or was I assuming what I expected to hear?"
I think most of us who have posted so far are of a generation who worked this way and this is an extremely useful discipline. Of course thanks to [i]all things bright and digital[/i], we do also have the benefit of software to slow things down nowadays. Things like [i]the amazing slow downer,[/i] or [i]audacity[/i] to name but two. These can both be helpful particularly when trying to check out faster, tricky passages.

Edited October 14, 2015 by SICbass

[leschirons]

If I need to learn a song, the first thing I do is write down all the chords for intro, verse, bridge, mid 8, etc then sort out the bass line. I find being able to play the song on guitar or keyboards gives me a clue as to why the bass is doing what it does and what it should be doing if I can't hear it properly (actually, more like what I can get away with)

Also, being able to play all the chords usually means I can correct our guitarist who's only listened to it in the car on the way to rehearsal

[spectoremg]

I've occasionally transposed an octave up to pick out bass lines. Nero will do it.

[discreet]

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1444808274' post='2886135']
...being able to play all the chords usually means I can correct our guitarist who's only listened to it in the car on the way to rehearsal...
[/quote]

Ha. This is the main reason I gave up covers bands. People just won't put the necessary work in to do the songs justice. 'That'll do' and 'close enough' are not an option, IMHO.

[colgraff]

I went the other way. Having played bass for 20 years before the internet and tab got going, I could only learn by ear (or buying expensive scores by Off the Record, etc.) I found that my playing improved markedly when I started using tabs, but then I was never much good at learning by ear.

Writing this has reminded me of some of the wonderfully bad lyrics bands sang when lyrics had to be figured out by ear; especially if a new song had been recorded off the Radio 1 Top 40 onto a cheap cassette and then collective guesswork was applied to the decoding.

[KiOgon]

Taking all of the advice above how did we ever manage when listening to nothing more than a transistor radio from Woolworths, tuned to Luxembourg or Caroline, under the bedclothes, in the dark

[JTUK]

You'll need to run thru it a few times... experience will get you a long way to guess the notes that aren't that apparent or obvious but if you want to train your ear, you are going to have to use it as the default method. It will get easier as you work at these things.
Only use tab or notation for the sticky parts if you are trying to get your ears working, IMO.

P.S in days gone by, players used to wear the record out playing it over and over....

Edited October 14, 2015 by JTUK

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1444778869' post='2886038']
Mainly because quite often the bass tracks (at least on noisy rock-style songs) are buried deep in the mix.

[/quote]

The best thing I've ever been shown was to use an editor (I use Audacity) to shift the whole track up an octave. It makes the vocals and other instruments sound ridiculous but it normally makes the bass part jump out of the mix. Combined with slowing the track down (which you can also do in Audacity) this makes learning lines much, much easier.

[discreet]

[quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1444809532' post='2886151']
...how did we ever manage when listening to nothing more than a transistor radio from Woolworths, tuned to Luxembourg or Caroline, under the bedclothes, in the dark..?
[/quote]

I can't possibly comment on that, but I would have thought learning the songs would have been a better use of your time...

Edited October 14, 2015 by discreet

[SICbass]

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1444808274' post='2886135']
If I need to learn a song, the first thing I do is write down all the chords for intro, verse, bridge, mid 8, etc then sort out the bass line. I find being able to play the song on guitar or keyboards gives me a clue as to why the bass is doing what it does and what it should be doing if I can't hear it properly (actually, more like what I can get away with)

Also, being able to play all the chords usually means I can correct our guitarist who's only listened to it in the car on the way to rehearsal
[/quote]

Being able to check harmonies is invaluable, but don't allow it to distract from actually [i]listening[/i] to the bass line.

I often come across situations where a guitarist or keyboard player have written a lead-sheet based on what they've heard harmonically without paying attention to the bass-part. The upper part of the harmonies is accurate but you sometimes come into conflict with the keyboard player's left hand. Then ensue patronising looks from said keyboard player until you can bend his ear to actually listen to the bass on a recording (sorry, thread-hijack and mini-rant are hereby over)

[blue]

I'll usually go straight to YouTube and find a tutorial where someone has already nailed the song and is showing you how to play it. Many times the bass part is isolated.

After I learn the song then I will put my personal spin on it.

Blue

[DavidMcKay]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1444812987' post='2886200']
I'll usually go straight to YouTube and find a tutorial where someone has already nailed the song and is showing you how to play it. Many times the bass part is isolated.

After I learn the song then I will put my personal spin on it.

Blue
[/quote]

Absolutely works for me.

Plus you get to see many different interpretations of the same song.

Edited October 14, 2015 by DavidMcKay

[discreet]

This is the problem I have with covers and why I don't do them. People pay to see a covers band to hear songs they know and love. You are being paid to reproduce those songs. In my view they should be played as closely as possible to the originals, within the parameters of what is possible, i.e. production values, what the engineer had for breakfast, etc. etc.

Most covers bands won't do this, and far too often will use the 'it's our interpretation of it' to mean 'we couldn't be bothered/it was too hard to learn it properly'. Well-known hit songs are well-known hit songs for a reason - if you want to do your own thing then write hit songs of your own. And another thing, it's extremely rare to find a bass cover on YouTube that is anywhere near correct!

*Awaits backlash from 'song-interpreters' and those who can't be bothered to learn the songs properly* Thhppp! Thpp!!

Edited October 14, 2015 by discreet

[Silvia Bluejay]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1444813586' post='2886206']
This is the problem I have with covers and why I don't do them. People pay to see a covers band to hear songs they know and love. You are being paid to reproduce those songs. In my view they should be played as closely as possible to the originals, within the parameters of what is possible, i.e. production values, what the engineer had for breakfast, etc. etc.

Most covers bands won't do this, and far too often will use the 'it's our interpretation of it' to mean 'we couldn't be bothered/it was too hard to learn it properly'. Well-known hit songs are well-known hit songs for a reason - if you want to do your own thing then write hit songs of your own. And another thing, it's extremely rare to find a bass cover on YouTube that is anywhere near correct!

*Awaits backlash from 'song-interpreters' and those who can't be bothered to learn the songs properly* Thhppp! Thpp!!
[/quote]

No backlash from here! I agree 100%.

[chris_b]

Playing by ear is an important skill to master and one that gets better the more you do it.

It's easy to hear if the lines goes up, down or stays the same. You then have to learn by how much they are going up or down. Then you learn what octaves, 3rds, 4ths and 5ths sound like in relation to the root and chords. Most modern songs are pretty repetitive so you get an idea what's happening in verse one and aim to play it in verse two etc. Start with simple songs and get more complicated as you are able to improve.

You will be a better player when you can do this when you are practising and in real time.

Also try to read the dots.

[discreet]

[quote name='bluejay' timestamp='1444813713' post='2886212']
No backlash from here! I agree 100%.
[/quote]

Now I remember why I admire you so fondly, Silvia.

[chris_b]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1444813586' post='2886206']
This is the problem I have with covers . . .
[/quote]
The only backlash should be against closed minds and bad players.

There are many poor players and poor listeners amongst hobbyists, week-enders and the lazy and incompetent but taking a song and rearranging it or "doing it our way" are valid ways of making good music.

One of the best examples is With A Little Help From My Friend by Joe Cocker. Surly the best cover ever. Tina Turner was an expert in knocking out a great "cover".

As with everything, some rearrangements work and some don't. Don't paint them all with the same brush.

[Silvia Bluejay]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1444814306' post='2886223']
The only backlash should be against closed minds and bad players.

There are many poor players and poor listeners amongst hobbyists, week-enders and the lazy and incompetent but taking a song and rearranging it or "doing it our way" are valid ways of making good music.

One of the best examples is With A Little Help From My Friend by Joe Cocker. Surly the best cover ever. Tina Turner was an expert in knocking out a great "cover".

As with everything, some rearrangements work and some don't. Don't paint them all with the same brush.
[/quote]

Joe cocker and Tina Turner were originals acts who did a few covers every now and then. They were not covers bands, nor did we buy tickets to see their concerts just to hear covers.