SICbass Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 [quote name='bluejay' timestamp='1444813713' post='2886212'] No backlash from here! I agree 100%. [/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynottfan Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 One other thing that I found useful was seek out a teacher, mine helped me work out the styles of the players who I wanted to be able to cover whilst breaking down the techniques used, the musical structures and the various nuances and signature approaches that they have in their playing. This in turn helped me be able to listen to a song better and break the parts down and get a decent take on the bass line. Now for a cover band if the bass riff is integral, you nail it, but putting your own spin on something I have no problem with, as your "covering" that song but it needs to work well, for a Tribute act you have to go for 100% some of the original band fans can be merciless! As for the Tab, if I need to work out something quick I will have a look, there are no hard and fast rules really, just go with what helps you get to learn the song in the easiest way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 [quote name='bluejay' timestamp='1444814883' post='2886228'] Joe cocker and Tina Turner were originals acts who did a few covers every now and then. They were not covers bands, nor did we buy tickets to see their concerts just to hear covers. [/quote] Just came here to indignantly say exactly the same thing, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agwin Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Is it just me? Often when I have a cover to learn I give it a good old ear’ole and end up doubting my self in what I hear. I then turn to tab (usually the one with rhythm too) only to find some of the bass line confirmed and other parts where I’m thinking that’s definitely NOT what I’m hearing (or think I’m hearing?) and go back to the good old ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 [quote name='Agwin' timestamp='1444816265' post='2886249'] Is it just me? Often when I have a cover to learn I give it a good old ear’ole and end up doubting my self in what I hear. I then turn to tab (usually the one with rhythm too) only to find some of the bass line confirmed and other parts where I’m thinking that’s definitely NOT what I’m hearing (or think I’m hearing?) and go back to the good old ears. [/quote] That's why ultimately earholes have to be way forward. People who produce tabs are just as likely to be wrong as anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1444813586' post='2886206'] *Awaits backlash from 'song-interpreters' and those who can't be bothered to learn the songs properly* Thhppp! Thpp!! [/quote] Could also argue those who are "song purists" havent got the skills to interpret tastefully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Listen, listen and then listen some more. I get the basic root note sequence for the chords first and then work on the intricacies of the actual bass line from there. If I really can't hear what's going on at a particular point I'll make something up based on what happens at the points I can hear, safe in the knowledge that if I can't tell what the bass is doing no one else apart from the person who actually played on the recording will notice. Watch out for down tuning. If you find yourself needing low Eb and D and some of the runs seem very awkward to play then the song may well have been recorded with non-standard tuning. OTOH there's more than a few songs I know of that have been recorded with the guitars tuned to Eb which are easier to play with the bass left in standard tuning rather than down-tuned to match. On songs with prominent keyboard parts the perceived bass line may well be a combination of the bass guitar part and the keyboard. What you do in this situation will depend on the context you are going to be playing the son in. If you're doing it at home for your own enjoyment then simply listen to separate out the bass guitar from the keyboard part. In a band situation without the appropriate keyboard part you may well have to come up with a new bass line that incorporates the essential elements of both into a single part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 [quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1444817741' post='2886274'] Could also argue those who are "song purists" havent got the skills to interpret tastefully [/quote] I think audiences in general will have time for a band's or an individual's 'tasteful interpretations' of other people's songs when said band or individual is famous enough on their own strength. If I go to a pub knowing there's a covers band on, I hope to hear every song played well, that is, as close to the original as possible, allowing for differences in lineup, sound equipment and similar. Incidentally, going back to Joe Cocker's cover version, I far prefer the Beatles' original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubsonicSimpleton Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Sing. If you can sing a phrase accurately, then you'll be able to figure it out pretty easily - beneficial both for working out other peoples music and realising your own ideas. Investigating the world of moveable-do solfege has many benefits, and it ties in neatly with functional ear training. This site http://www.miles.be/ has a good free ear training software, and some really good information about ear training. I used to think I had a pretty good ear, but when I started taking ear training seriously, I discovered that I was confusing certain intervals quite consistently, which was a real lightbulb moment and explained why I had real difficulty working out certain things while others seemed simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1444813586' post='2886206'] *Awaits backlash from 'song-interpreters' and those who can't be bothered to learn the songs properly* Thhppp! Thpp!! [/quote] IMO unless every note in the bass line is clearly audible on the recording the only one who can definitely say what was played is the person who was actually in the studio playing it. Everyone else is just going to be a good guess. Besides bass lines evolve and change. Just listen to the studio recording of "The Boys Are Back In Town" and then compare that with what Phil Lynott actually plays on the live version... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razze06 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1444814306' post='2886223'] The only backlash should be against closed minds and bad players. There are many poor players and poor listeners amongst hobbyists, week-enders and the lazy and incompetent but taking a song and rearranging it or "doing it our way" are valid ways of making good music. One of the best examples is With A Little Help From My Friend by Joe Cocker. Surly the best cover ever. Tina Turner was an expert in knocking out a great "cover". As with everything, some rearrangements work and some don't. Don't paint them all with the same brush. [/quote] Moreover, lots of acts in the past (and present) made they living and their name by knocking out re-interpreted version of other songs. Much of 60s and 70s ska and reggae was born out of caribbean interpretation of american soul numbers, and to this day lots of artists only produce covers in a specific style. Easy Star All Stars, Nouvelle Vague, PostModern Jukebox to name but a few. I really enjoy that kind of covers over any kind of faithful rendition of the original. I can always put up the original record for that original version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razze06 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Oh yes, and I agree that knowing the key and and having an idea of the chord progression will go a long way to make sure that what you play is sounds right. Also listening A LOT is another key aspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1444813586' post='2886206'] This is the problem I have with covers and why I don't do them. People pay to see a covers band to hear songs they know and love. You are being paid to reproduce those songs. In my view they should be played as closely as possible to the originals, within the parameters of what is possible, i.e. production values, what the engineer had for breakfast, etc. etc. Most covers bands won't do this, and far too often will use the 'it's our interpretation of it' to mean 'we couldn't be bothered/it was too hard to learn it properly'. Well-known hit songs are well-known hit songs for a reason - if you want to do your own thing then write hit songs of your own. And another thing, it's extremely rare to find a bass cover on YouTube that is anywhere near correct! *Awaits backlash from 'song-interpreters' and those who can't be bothered to learn the songs properly* Thhppp! Thpp!! [/quote] There may be some truth in your bold brush strokes, but there is room in the spectrum for an 'honest best' from enthusiastic musicians trying hard to get the best performance their skills and material will allow (and, in passing, [i]not [/i]getting paid for it...). Our band is one such; we 'cover' Ave Adore, several Radioheads, a couple of Alain Bashungs, RATM and much, much more. Do we sound exactly like any of these..? Of course not. Are our public happy with what we offer..? Yes, they are. Are we good-for-nothing lazy beggars who can't be bothered to get it right..? No. We don't need to excuse ourselves, nor blush in shame; we're doing what we enjoy, and others enjoy it. There are seldom deaths from our performances. I understand you've covered your rear by stating '[i]most[/i]' covers. Maybe we're one of the few exceptions. Maybe. We're not attempting to be a tribute band, but we do try to give tribute to the original version, by the very fact of having chosen to play it. Disclaimer: we don't play what the audience want to hear. We play what [i]we [/i]want them to hear. Other bands may work differently. Just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) We cover alot of Motown songs. We havent got a full brass section, and as such, can't always cover a song exactly the same. People who come to see us have never seemed to be bothered by this. Doesnt matter anyway. As long as the music is there or thereabouts, people only care about hearing the singer . . . . Edit to add Edited October 14, 2015 by FuNkShUi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1444822256' post='2886341'] There may be some truth... [/quote] Doug, you play to French people so it doesn't matter. Seriously though I do understand, which is why I said 'within the parameters of what is possible'. Obviously one singer isn't going to be able to convincingly impersonate ten different pro singers (for example), but they CAN make the bloody effort to learn the lyrics properly, at least... Edited October 14, 2015 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 You would think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1444813586' post='2886206'] This is the problem I have with covers and why I don't do them. People pay to see a covers band to hear songs they know and love. You are being paid to reproduce those songs. In my view they should be played as closely as possible to the originals, within the parameters of what is possible, i.e. production values, what the engineer had for breakfast, etc. etc. Most covers bands won't do this, and far too often will use the 'it's our interpretation of it' to mean 'we couldn't be bothered/it was too hard to learn it properly'. Well-known hit songs are well-known hit songs for a reason - if you want to do your own thing then write hit songs of your own. And another thing, it's extremely rare to find a bass cover on YouTube that is anywhere near correct! *Awaits backlash from 'song-interpreters' and those who can't be bothered to learn the songs properly* Thhppp! Thpp!! [/quote] My take on it is that too many covers bands will try and go for a very good copy and miss it by some distance. The players are the players on the record..so that is a minefield in itself. I think the best approach is the get the essense right and make it work...and hopefully produce a better rendition than the recorded version you are using for reference. Why would you want to copy Entwhistle or MaCartney lines for example if you don't like their style or playing..or lines. You could argue why even do the song in the first place, but...??? But hey..it is all down to how you pull it off... and you live or die by that as a player or band. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattbass6 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) I have a very silly tip for extracting hard to hear bass lines but it works, I promise. Turn the music up to a sensible level and then turn on a hairdryer to it's highest speed. Make sure the speakers are behind you and seriously, you start to hear the bass lines more clearly. Try it and let me know Edited October 14, 2015 by mattbass6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 You used to be able to put albums (which were 33 rpm) on at 45 rpm and the bass line became more prominent. Of course progress has put paid to that method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1444818104' post='2886278'] Watch out for down tuning. If you find yourself needing low Eb and D and some of the runs seem very awkward to play then the song may well have been recorded with non-standard tuning. OTOH there's more than a few songs I know of that have been recorded with the guitars tuned to Eb which are easier to play with the bass left in standard tuning rather than down-tuned to match. [/quote] more than once, in the old analogue days we changed the speed of the tape when mixing down - as a result the song sounds in a different key to the one it was recorded in Live we'd generally play it in the key it was recorded Edited October 14, 2015 by Twigman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) This is something I have never done... I sometimes have to work out the key etc by ear for some new idea another band member has posted me, to help me when I'm writing my bass parts - but never in all my time playing have I listened to a track and learned the bass line... So based on never having done it I assume I'd be crap at it. Edited October 14, 2015 by CamdenRob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 [quote name='SICbass' timestamp='1444811283' post='2886175'] Being able to check harmonies is invaluable, but don't allow it to distract from actually [i]listening[/i] to the bass line. [/quote] It doesn't distract me from the bass line at all. I just like the idea of being able to play all of our numbers on any instrument in the band (including the drums) It keeps them all on their toes and puts a stop to bullshit excuses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_version"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_version[/url] Anyone ever tried to cover 4' 33"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 [quote name='grandad' timestamp='1444839609' post='2886585'] Anyone ever tried to cover 4' 33"? [/quote] Yes, but I like to keep quiet about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Remember though that 4' 33" is not about the "silence" but about the ambient noises that you wouldn't normally be able to hear because there would be music covering them up. Therefore every performance of it will be totally different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.