Luthier vs Factory/Mass Produced

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1445463048' post='2891740']
No Rob, I don't get that at all. I've always found my Wals to be hugely versatile and able to fit into any playing situation. That includes playing folk, pop/rock/soul covers, rock musicals and modern worship. I've never really found a situation where I couldn't dial in a sympathetic or appropriate tone. The covers band I used to play in covers a wide range of styles from Britpop to Motown, Beatles to Laurel Canyon singer songwriter, rock to easy listening, rock and roll to white reggae. I was able to dial up all sorts of tones from varying pickup blend and tone settings, plucking position and whatever. At one wedding we did a kid came up after one of the sets asking what effects I was using. He really liked the different tones I was getting. The only pedals I had were a Boss TU2 tuner and a Lehle 3@1 switching pedal to switch between my two basses. All the different sounds were just from altering pickup choice, tone settings and playing technique.

Lots and lots of different gig friendly sounds hiding inside a Wal when you know where to look for them..
[/quote]

Fair enough

I use mine for everything too... I have too I only own wal basses!

Although I still reckon if I was playing dog and duck stuff I'd go for a nice P bass, a lull or something similar probably. Not that that is ever likely to happen so it's a bit of a moot point anyway really...

Edited October 22, 2015 by CamdenRob

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='DavidMcKay' timestamp='1445463548' post='2891745']
Hijacked by the Wal brigade!

Is it not enough that you guys have your own

[b] It's the "I don't care, I love the way Wal basses sound" thread...[/b]


without using a crowbar to wedge a Wal-related post into every other thread!
[/quote]

Yes BC has become a bit of a Wal fest recently... Even I as an ardent fanboi am running out of things to say about them!

BC goes through phases like this though, it'll be another brand next week we're all talking about and Wal will fall into the background for a bit.

Edited October 22, 2015 by CamdenRob

[TrevorR]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1445496643' post='2891828']


Yes BC has become a bit of a Wal fest recently... Even I as an ardent fanboi am running out of things to say about them!

BC goes through phases like this though, it'll be another brand next week we're all talking about and Wal will fall into the background for a bit.
[/quote]

And to be fair David, a lot of the current Wal based activity HAS been sparked and fuelled by your posts... :-)

[BigRedX]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1445410556' post='2891202']
Yes of course it would, but would the tone suit rock covers? Plus you'd have punters asking where your fender was after every gig.

I'd go for P bass in that situation.
[/quote]

In 35 years of gigging I have never once been asked by either the band or the audience where my Fender bass was. Over the years my main choice of basses have been: Burns Sonic, Overwater Original, Gus G3, Warwick Star Bass, Wesley Acylic, Pedulla Buzz and Sei Flamboyant - not a Fender or Fender-alike among them.

I did have a Squier VMJ Fretless for a short while, but it get quickly replaced by the Pedulla Buzz. The band I was in at the time mentioned how much better my sound and playing was since I got the "new bass".

[Twigman]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1445509219' post='2891954']
In 35 years of gigging I have never once been asked by either the band or the audience where my Fender bass was.
[/quote]
me neither - however our guitarist complained that my new bass 'isn't even Fender shaped' - the other night....

So what?

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1445509219' post='2891954']
In 35 years of gigging I have never once been asked by either the band or the audience where my Fender bass was
[/quote]

Well yes but you're not playing dad rock covers in pubs, I've never been asked where my fender is either...

[BigRedX]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1445510256' post='2891977']
Well yes but you're not playing dad rock covers in pubs, I've never been asked where my fender is either...
[/quote]

But I have in the past. I mostly used the Overwater and the Gus plus the Pedulla and the Sei when I needed a fretless bass.

[CamdenRob]

Am I really the only one that would use a P bass for rock covers? I'd want to be using the bass 90% of the songs I was replicating were recorded on.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1445510824' post='2891986']
Am I really the only one that would use a P bass for rock covers? I'd want to be using the bass 90% of the songs I was replicating were recorded on.
[/quote]

But are you 100% sure that it's a P-Bass on all those songs? My recollection from seeing bands in the 70s on TotP and TOGWT as well as at gigs was that there were as many Gibsons and Rickenbackers in evidence as there were Fenders.

Besides in a band mix with a decent versatile bass and rig you can get something that sounds right without having to replicate the gear used on the original recording. I had a bassy sound and brighter version each with 2 different levels of drive on them and that covered pretty much everything I needed in my covers bands.

[DavidMcKay]

[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1445506674' post='2891924']
And to be fair David, a lot of the current Wal based activity HAS been sparked and fuelled by your posts... :-)
[/quote]

Indeed. That point isn't lost on me!

[TrevorR]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1445510824' post='2891986']
Am I really the only one that would use a P bass for rock covers? I'd want to be using the bass 90% of the songs I was replicating were recorded on.
[/quote]

Never been part of the equation for me. In a covers band I'm not trying to replicate a song, I'm trying to perform it. There is a huge difference. Replication is what Tribute bands are about. Line up limitations mean you could hardly ever replicate anyway. If we're playing Sweet Home Alabama or Hotel California with a band whose line up is ac/elec guitar, bass, drums and sax (our line up) then whether you're using the same bass as the original recording is going way beyond splitting hairs...

As a concession though, one time we did an open air 1960s themed event I brought along my Frankenjazz but more for visual vibe than anything else...

Edited October 22, 2015 by TrevorR

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1445509219' post='2891954']
In 35 years of gigging I have never once been asked by either the band or the audience where my Fender bass was.
[/quote]

Me neither, as evidenced by the absence of any recorded deaths resulting from being twatted over the head with a status.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1445510824' post='2891986']
Am I really the only one that would use a P bass for rock covers? I'd want to be using the bass 90% of the songs I was replicating were recorded on.
[/quote]

Most were probably recorded using a valve amp, I don't use a valve amp.
Most were probably recorded on a 4 string, I use a 5.
Many were probably recorded playing a pick, I play fingerstyle.

At one point I was playing in several bands with material as diverse as Enter Sandman and Tears of A clown, all I did was pluck the string differently in a different place.

[Cameronj279]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1445509219' post='2891954']


In 35 years of gigging I have never once been asked by either the band or the audience where my Fender bass was.

[/quote]

I did once. I'm pretty sure I was playing a Warwick Thumb LTD 2006 at the time.

The person may have been taking the Piss though. Hard to tell.

[Muzz]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1445509219' post='2891954']
In 35 years of gigging I have never once been asked by either the band or the audience where my Fender bass was.
[/quote]

Nope me neither, and I've used some pretty esoteric basses in the 35 years, too, a lot of which, ironically, looked a lot less like a Fender than a Wal does...

Edited October 22, 2015 by Muzz

[tauzero]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1445510256' post='2891977']
Well yes but you're not playing dad rock covers in pubs, I've never been asked where my fender is either...
[/quote]

I play dad rock covers in pubs. I do get the occasional compliment on the Sei Original headless fretless 5-string. Never had anyone question the absence of Fender.

[tauzero]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1445510824' post='2891986']
Am I really the only one that would use a P bass for rock covers? I'd want to be using the bass 90% of the songs I was replicating were recorded on.
[/quote]

Why?

[JamesBass]

It's nice to own something made by a luthier, especially if you spec it, but how many other people are going to spend that much money on the EXACT same spec you went for? Ultimately the price points at first purchase of a Luthier built bass and a mass produced one, is quite far apart, so in terms of depreciation, it's obvious the Luthier made bass is more likely to be a bargain, especially when it's competing with the original unaltered version in the market place, I mean yeah luthier made instruments feel superb, but does it feel twice, three times as good as a great off the shelf bass? Not likely.

Then there comes the desperation for the sale, many seem to go from one high end bass to another on here, nothing against that, or even that there's anything bad about it! It's just something I've noticed.

[Muzz]

If you know what you want (and it can be a big if) from a bass, and it isn't available off the shelf, then luthier-made is a no-brainer. I think a lot of people think they know what they want, but when it comes to specifying every element of a bass, which is part of the luthier thing, then there can be pitfalls. Then the dissatisfaction, then the resale, and the big hit on depreciation... I keep buying Rays, even though I really don't get on with them and never play them live more than once, but I do like them as a thing. Luckily I've never bought a new one, so I can keep buying them and selling them without losing much money.

When it comes to buying new, I've only done it twice in 25 years since my BB3000, first time was a factory-produced 4003W, which was rubbish (quality) and went back to GAK the next day, and then for the same money I got a luthier-made bass to my spec, which I'll never sell. It was twice, three times as good, for exactly the same money.

That's not to say there isn't factory-produced stuff which isn't great quality - I bought a Deko 54PB from Thomann the other week, and it's as good as Squier stuff at ten times the price. Is a Fodera or a Ritter 200 times better, because that what it costs? It is if you want a Fodera or a Ritter...

[Rich]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1445510824' post='2891986']
Am I really the only one that would use a P bass for rock covers? I'd want to be using the bass 90% of the songs I was replicating were recorded on.
[/quote]
I was in a blues-rock trio for a number of years -- we played the sort of stuff you'd expect, Hendrix, G.Moore, Hamsters, SRV, Zeezees. During that time I used a Wal, a Bass Maniac-clone 5 string, even a Tobias 6 string, but never anything Fendery. I always got the right tone and not once did I have it suggested to me that it would sound or be better if I used a P bass. Personally I wouldn't get really hung up on using exactly the right bass unless I was in a pukka tribute band.

[JTUK]

When it comes to a P Bass it is what most people need...
It is hard to mess up the sound, which is a lesson some should note.
If I go and see bands, the bass players with the 'worst' sounds
tend to be guys looking for something different from a P...and failing.

Invaribly it will be some humbucker thing which they think they want
for the thicker sound...and then they lack a lot of tone or character.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1445680951' post='2893318']
When it comes to a P Bass it is what most people need...
It is hard to mess up the sound, which is a lesson some should note.
[/quote]

There is a guy who plays locally who uses a J type bass (don't recall which make). He plays in a twin loud distorted guitar band, uses the blend pickup position as far as I can tell which is generally a naturally scooped sound, then compounds his error by dialing in an extreme smiley face setting on his amps graphic EQ, the result - he generates a background rumble which is rarely perceptible as actual notes.

[JTUK]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1445683152' post='2893349']
There is a guy who plays locally who uses a J type bass (don't recall which make). He plays in a twin loud distorted guitar band, uses the blend pickup position as far as I can tell which is generally a naturally scooped sound, then compounds his error by dialing in an extreme smiley face setting on his amps graphic EQ, the result - he generates a background rumble which is rarely perceptible as actual notes.
[/quote]

Well, yes, there is a certain level of cluelessness you can't really legislate for.

My comment is really inspired by a guy asking me what I tho ught of his slap solo...and I could see him doing it...
I just couldn't hear a thing. My thought was how can you get that so wrong sound wise..??

MM Bass and Ampeg SVT 3 plus 410.... and the crazy thing is...that two other bass players 'loved' the sound and went out
and bought the same rig...with just a slight variation in one of the basses, but still with the MM sound.

The common theme is..that the guys play and llike the same sort of material so since they liked the first band..and did the same sort
of set, they copied the same bass and amps.. ????