Coated String Choices

[Doctor J]

I notice D'Addario have entered the coated string market with their EXP range and Warwick also have a coated string selection, has anybody tried them? I've had a few sets of Elixirs on different basses and, while I like the extended life, I'm not entirely convinced of the Elixir string itself. Are the others much use compared to the Elixirs?

[stevebasshead]

In my experience the Elixirs come out best. The D'Addario's sounded dull from new which, Ok, could've been a dodgy set but for the money I wasn't prepared to try them a 2nd time. They also felt quite rough. The Warwicks were better sounding than the D'Addario's and not as rough but didn't stay as 'new' sounding for as long as the Elixir's which sound good for months and months.

If you don't mind the way the Elixir's coating can start to flake off and make the strings look furry (only you will notice, it's not visible from a distance and doesn't affect the sound) I'd stick with them.

I've since switched to Dean Markley 'Blue Steels' which I love. No coating but they last very well and even when they lose their brightness they still sound excellent. I get about 6 months+ out of them gigging 2-3 times a week.

[ped]

I have had a set of Elixirs on my main bass for almost a year now and they sound as good as new. Fantastic! Mine haven't ever flaked either, but I never use a pick and play quite lightly...

Worth noting very quickly that Elixir strings are patented - nobody else is allowed to make them by coating the string AFTER the string is wound (keeping out crap from entering the winds). Everyone else coats the string before it is wound, essentially meaning there is 'crap' - or coating - in between the winds from the outset.

ped

[noelk27]

[quote name='ped' post='279703' date='Sep 8 2008, 12:59 PM']Worth noting very quickly that Elixir strings are patented - nobody else is allowed to make them by coating the string AFTER the string is wound (keeping out crap from entering the winds). Everyone else coats the string before it is wound, essentially meaning there is 'crap' - or coating - in between the winds from the outset.[/quote]

Incorrect. Leave aside discussion of the different polymeric materials used in the various manufacturers’ processes, let us concentrate on the essential production aspect that differentiates WL Gore and Associates Inc’s process from that of other string manufacturers. The specific claim made by Gore for Elixir strings does not relate to when in the process the coating is applied, but is that after submersing a wound string in a bath of liquefied polymer, the string is then removed and any excess polymeric material is scraped from the surface of the string leaving only the interstitial voids filled by polymeric material. It is this process of scraping that differentiates Gore’s process, and Elixir strings, from those of other manufacturers. Indeed, in its patent of 2002, Gore specifically names D’Addario and Martin, and relates that their coated strings are manufactured by a similar process of winding followed by submersing to produce a fully coated string, referring to this coating as lacquer, before stating that such exterior coating wears quickly and is susceptible to cracking.

[bass_ferret]

DR do coated strings in foxy colours but they dont seem to be well liked by those that have tried them.

[Dr.Dave]

Being a notorious abuser of strings (sweaty - forget to wash hands - forget to wipe over strings - touch of a gorilla etc etc) I'm happy to report that my first ever Elixirs sound as good to me now as they did last Oct when I put them on.

Though that's of little comfort to you if you don't like the sound to start with.

Out of interest - anyone ever tried boiling 'old' Elixirs in the time honoured fashion of the pathalogically tight fisted??

[ped]

[quote name='noelk27' post='283021' date='Sep 13 2008, 01:47 AM']Incorrect. Leave aside discussion of the different polymeric materials used in the various manufacturers’ processes, let us concentrate on the essential production aspect that differentiates WL Gore and Associates Inc’s process from that of other string manufacturers. The specific claim made by Gore for Elixir strings does not relate to when in the process the coating is applied, but is that after submersing a wound string in a bath of liquefied polymer, the string is then removed and any excess polymeric material is scraped from the surface of the string leaving only the interstitial voids filled by polymeric material. It is this process of scraping that differentiates Gore’s process, and Elixir strings, from those of other manufacturers. Indeed, in its patent of 2002, Gore specifically names D’Addario and Martin, and relates that their coated strings are manufactured by a similar process of winding followed by submersing to produce a fully coated string, referring to this coating as lacquer, before stating that such exterior coating wears quickly and is susceptible to cracking.[/quote]

Hi Noel - Thanks for the correction. I thought the information I posted came from a top man at Elixir who gave us some free stuff to give away a while ago. Perhaps I have misunderstood. The animation here doesn't mention this though and is what I was trying to explain all along - a coating of the whole string, not the winding. [url="http://www.elixirstrings.com/whyelixir/czot.html#"]http://www.elixirstrings.com/whyelixir/czot.html#[/url]

Cheers
ped

[ped]

Good to hear Doc - I hardly sweat at all and I have had a set on for a year. I recently changed them as I have a couple of spare sets. I thought 'They MUST be a bit dead by now and I just can't detect the change over such a long time'. I put the new ones on, absolutely the same! One less thing to worry about.

[noelk27]

[quote name='ped' post='283099' date='Sep 13 2008, 10:03 AM']Hi Noel - Thanks for the correction. I thought the information I posted came from a top man at Elixir who gave us some free stuff to give away a while ago. Perhaps I have misunderstood. The animation here doesn't mention this though and is what I was trying to explain all along - a coating of the whole string, not the winding. [url="http://www.elixirstrings.com/whyelixir/czot.html#"]http://www.elixirstrings.com/whyelixir/czot.html#[/url]

Cheers
ped[/quote]

Understandable. The source information you were relating has been filtered and reinterpreted for marketing purposes. Of course, all manufacturers are guilty of these presentational infractions, as when a speaker manufacturer presents a frequency-response curve to advocate the performance of their product - in isolation, completely meaningless in terms of providing information. The science of Elixir strings is quite interesting, but in no way original - Gore itself concedes this point in its patent, where an explanation of its process can be read in claims 15 and/or 41 (US6765136).

Gore’s process of manufacture is somewhat innovative, but is only one approach to dealing with the treatment of wrap-core and wrap-wrap winding voids. There seems little doubt that Gore’s manufacturing process does allow for more of the inherent qualities of the wires utilised in the core and wraps of a string to dictate, and moves the coated string on from the positions achieved by the likes of D’Addario and Martin. Thereafter though, it’s entirely player subjective.

Edited September 13, 2008 by noelk27

[CHRISDABASS]

wow this is all getting quite technical!!

i was an elixir user for many years! i used to swear buy them! but i did always have issues with my sound that i couldn't seem to fix!

there was a slight "deadness" to my sound that i couldn't get rid of no matter what amp setting etc! it was like a slight lack of clarity and "sparkle" that ive always searched for!

i ended up selling all my basses that had elixirs on and i bought a couple of lovely sadowskys (they threw 3 sets of they're own brand of strings in for free:) )! now not being sure of what the stock sadowsky blue label strings would be like i put an order in for a few sets of elixirs with strings direct as well!

i tried the sadowsky blue label strings and elixir nanoweb strings side by side and ive got to say that the elixirs turned out to be the cause of my tone problems!!! the uncoated sadowsky's just brought my bass to life! i was like WOW! THIS IS WHAT IVE BEEN MISSING!!!

now dont get me wrong if your happy with the sound of a new set of elixirs then thats fine because they do sound like that pretty much forever but for ME after hearing a good set of uncoated strings a just can not go back to coated!

i may have to change my strings a little more often but i dont really mind! the sadowsky's work out at about £14 so thats way cheaper that £30 elixirs!


i may have a set of 45-105 elixirs for sale that have only been on my bass for 20 minutes if anyone wants them?? lol

[noelk27]

[quote name='CHRISDABASS' post='283145' date='Sep 13 2008, 12:17 PM']i was an elixir user for many years! i used to swear buy them! but i did always have issues with my sound that i couldn't seem to fix!

there was a slight "deadness" to my sound that i couldn't get rid of no matter what amp setting etc! it was like a slight lack of clarity and "sparkle" that ive always searched for![/quote]

The “deadness” is a consequence of the use of the polymeric material, which eradicates the voids created by the wrapping process. The word coating is somewhat misleading as the polymeric material is better thought of as a filler and not a coating - particularly with respect to Gore’s Elixir strings which have the superficial polymeric material removed by scraping. With this in mind, the deadening you perceived is a consequence of coated strings having an increased similarity to flatwound than roundwound strings, as the air pockets inherent in the wrapping of roundwound strings contribute to the perceived life of the string when it is new, and as these pockets fill with detritus the progressive deadening of the string over it’s playing life - in combination with other factors, such as surface damage.

Edited September 13, 2008 by noelk27

[markytbass]

I tried a set of Elixir's we had knocking around in a drawer, on my Warwick and found that the ball ends didn't fit in the tail piece (2 piece bridge). When I got them in I couldn't get them out without losening the tail. It may have been a one off but I'm not perpared to pay for a set only to find they dont fit (the ones I have were on my wife's Ibanez she got last year).

[Doctor J]

Thanks for all the replies, some interesting stuff there.

Well, I've got Elixirs on a couple of basses and a couple of sets of D'Addario coated have arrived in the post which I'll put on a couple of different basses and let ye know what how they compare.

[Wooks]

I've got a set of Warwick EMP's on my $$ and they are pretty good.

[jerseytrev]

[quote name='Wooks' post='288464' date='Sep 21 2008, 11:05 AM']I've got a set of Warwick EMP's on my $$ and they are pretty good.[/quote]
me too my $$ came with them always used elites but am reluctant to put them on the $$

[GremlinAndy]

I use Warwick EMP's While I can't compare them with Elixirs, as I haven't tried them, I *can* compare them with the Warwick black labels I used to swear by.
From the box they are slightly less bright, but only very slightly less so. However the pay off comes from the longevity.
I reckon a set of Black Labels last me about 6 to 8 hours of punctuated playing before becoming deader than I like... However the EMPs, ...well I haven't changed them yet after, I guess, 20 or 25 hours. I dunno how much longer they'll go on, but they already paid for themsleves over the Black labels.

[Geddys nose]

I use DR Black Beautys and I love 'em they do seem to stay very bright sounding for quite a while (5-6 weeks)but if your a pick player they do lose there colour at the point the pick hits the string after a while.Cheapest place for them is Thomann about £20

[josh3184]

[quote name='noelk27' post='283216' date='Sep 13 2008, 02:44 PM']The “deadness” is a consequence of the use of the polymeric material, which eradicates the voids created by the wrapping process. The word coating is somewhat misleading as the polymeric material is better thought of as a filler and not a coating - particularly with respect to Gore’s Elixir strings which have the superficial polymeric material removed by scraping. With this in mind, the deadening you perceived is a consequence of coated strings having an increased similarity to flatwound than roundwound strings, as the air pockets inherent in the wrapping of roundwound strings contribute to the perceived life of the string when it is new, and as these pockets fill with detritus the progressive deadening of the string over it’s playing life - in combination with other factors, such as surface damage.[/quote]

Just wondering what you do for a living, as I seem to remember you getting incredibly technical in a thread about status necks and whether they can be redrilled for different bolt configuration? You're a walking encyclopedia!

[Guest]

[quote name='Geddys nose' post='325006' date='Nov 8 2008, 09:45 PM']I use DR Black Beautys and I love 'em they do seem to stay very bright sounding for quite a while (5-6 weeks)but if your a pick player they do lose there colour at the point the pick hits the string after a while.Cheapest place for them is Thomann about £20 [/quote]


I wish i could find coated string i like, i have thrown away DR black beauty's when i have brought basses with then on ( Bongo ) But i love DR fat beams and Hi beams , if you could give me a string which sounds like a slightly played in fat beam but lasted longer i would love them. I really can't put my finger on why i don't like the DR coated strings as i prefer other DR strings after a little playing time so it's not as if i am craving a particularly bright sound.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='josh3184' post='325020' date='Nov 8 2008, 10:16 PM']Just wondering what you do for a living, as I seem to remember you getting incredibly technical in a thread about status necks and whether they can be redrilled for different bolt configuration? You're a walking encyclopedia! [/quote]

+1 It's always good to get the definitive view

Edited November 10, 2008 by skankdelvar

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='noelk27' post='283216' date='Sep 13 2008, 02:44 PM']The “deadness” is a consequence of the use of the polymeric material, which eradicates the voids created by the wrapping process. The word coating is somewhat misleading as the polymeric material is better thought of as a filler and not a coating - particularly with respect to Gore’s Elixir strings which have the superficial polymeric material removed by scraping. With this in mind, the deadening you perceived is a consequence of coated strings having an increased similarity to flatwound than roundwound strings, as the air pockets inherent in the wrapping of roundwound strings contribute to the perceived life of the string when it is new, and as these pockets fill with detritus the progressive deadening of the string over it’s playing life - in combination with other factors, such as surface damage.[/quote]

Would this account for the relatively good life I get from DR FatBeams?
Does the combination of a round core and their compression winding construction technique help to reduce the "air gaps" which clog with er.... [i]crud[/i] (for want of a better word!) and kill the string?