BassTractor Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 [quote name='ubit' timestamp='1445710422' post='2893682'] The op has stated that he doesn't want to go down this road, so obviously saying dump him, is not an option . [/quote] Exactly! Just dump him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 [quote name='ubit' timestamp='1445710422' post='2893682'] A lot of people seem to think, just get rid of this guy, but it's not always that easy. Has anyone asked if this guy is maybe a mate as well as a band member? Maybe he owns the van that takes them to gigs or something. The op has stated that he doesn't want to go down this road, so obviously saying dump him, is not an option . [/quote] We probably haven't been given all the relevant information, it's true. However, if I were in this band I'd either lobby for a new guitarist OR, if (for whatever reason) that wasn't possible, I'd give serious consideration to leaving myself and finding another band. A bit like the supposed Chinese method for cooking a pig, i.e. take the pig home and set fire to your house. Mmm, roast pork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subbeh Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 [quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1445710178' post='2893681'] thanks every one for your input. we have tried making suggestions such as positioning of his amp ect. im glad that what you have suggested collectivley is exactly what im thinking so i guess give him till xmas then im gonna have to risk a band fold by addressing it directly. at least i can say ive tried every thing! [/quote] Don't waste time making suggestions like that, address it directly. Why wait till christmas? address it in an honest and forthright way and if he can't handle that then you probably are better off getting rid. Playing gigs with a guitarist that makes the band sound bad will do far more damage to the band in the long run, I'd try and get it dealt with as a matter of urgency if he is as bad as you say. Either way, good luck and I hope it works out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) [quote name='ubit' timestamp='1445710422' post='2893682'] A lot of people seem to think, just get rid of this guy, but it's not always that easy. Has anyone asked if this guy is maybe a mate as well as a band member? Maybe he owns the van that takes them to gigs or something. The op has stated that he doesn't want to go down this road, so obviously saying dump him, is not an option . [/quote] But if the guitarist doesn't listen to, or agree with, what people are saying about his sound then kicking him out or the other members quitting & finding another band are pretty much the only options available, apart from carrying on as before which it doesn't sound like the band want to do. If a band is going to keep an unsuitable person in it just because that person is a friend or they own a van then they have no other option than to just put up with it being crap, stop moaning & get on with it, sh*t guitar sound & all. Edited October 24, 2015 by RhysP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) ~It doesn't seem to be working which sounds like an understatement.. and this is why I don't have mates in bands. Sure, they might be musical mates or people I like a lot, but doesn't get in the way of whether they are good enough to be there. If I felt strongly enough to make a thread about it, this would all come to a head very very quickly. I don't see the band line-out staying the same ...unless an 'understanding' is made VERY clear. Edited October 25, 2015 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 [quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1445693064' post='2893470'] ... the guitarist in my band constantly sounds SH*T ... [/quote] So why are you still playing with him? Are you making loads of money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1445706627' post='2893640'] This. Definitely this. +1 [/quote] and definitely put it up on the youtubes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 For several years I played in a band where the lead guitarist loved his sound, which the rest of the band referred to as "middly fuzz". Every song, no matter the genre, was given the same indistinct widdling. We did manage to have a rehearsal or two where we got him to play while the rest of us twiddled with the tone controls - and got some lovely sounds. The next gig we'd be straight back to the weedy mess sound. Unfortunately it didn't end well. After several weeks of "haranguing" he quit the band. Some people you can't change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 How do you get on with the rest of the band? Have you discussed it with them to see what they want to do? Why don't you & the singer start a side project with another guitarist & then after a couple of weeks ask the keys player to join & then invite the drummer a week later. Slowly displacing the old band. I did this in a previous band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1445765258' post='2893897'] ...start a side project with another guitarist & then after a couple of weeks ask the keys player to join & then invite the drummer a week later... [/quote] A neat and practical solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzneck Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 [quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1445708814' post='2893668'] A possible solution. Guitar amps are more directional than bass amps and unless he has a decent amp stand his amp will be pointing at his knees. This means he will only be hearing the bass from his amp and not the screetchy high notes. He is probably eq'ing so it sounds good where he is standing and he is turning up so he can hear clearly when well off the axis of the speaker. Explain politely you think this may be happening and ask him to lean the amp back at rehearsals so his ears are in line with the speaker axis. If he balances the sound then it should sound better for everyone. Then he needs to get a stand so the speakers are pointing straight at his ears at gigs too. I've used this tactic successfully more than once. [/quote] This. Wonderful things are beer crates. Worked for two guitarists I've played with over the years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Yup, Phil Starr's solution is the one. If even that doesn't help, this guitarist probably is one of [i]those[/i] persons, and the band needs to decide what is important in life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 [quote name='Jazzneck' timestamp='1445768036' post='2893922'] Wonderful things are beer crates. [/quote] Though I have a couple of pro amp stands, I still find a sturdy plastic crate the best solution for cab-levitation. And you can carry your amp, cables and other miscellanea in it, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1445765258' post='2893897'] Why don't you & the singer start a side project with another guitarist & then after a couple of weeks ask the keys player to join & then invite the drummer a week later. Slowly displacing the old band. [/quote] +1 Our current cover band grew out of the old band like this. It was the only way we could get rid of the useless band leader. If you have a band member who is unable to hear that they are crap and is unconcerned with the views of the other members, then they have to go. It's not "childish nonsense" to try and do the best you can in a band, even if that means firing someone. We've just lost our long standing drummer, a lovely guy and a mate to all of us, because he decided that he couldn't up his game when we asked. We gave it 6 months of "discussions" and rehearsals and in the end his under performing and lack of push to sort out the problems meant he was asked to leave. Breaking the band up because of a "mate" not fitting in is the stupidest way for a band to end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyctes Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1445708814' post='2893668'] A possible solution. Guitar amps are more directional than bass amps and unless he has a decent amp stand his amp will be pointing at his knees. This means he will only be hearing the bass from his amp and not the screetchy high notes. He is probably eq'ing so it sounds good where he is standing and he is turning up so he can hear clearly when well off the axis of the speaker. Explain politely you think this may be happening and ask him to lean the amp back at rehearsals so his ears are in line with the speaker axis. If he balances the sound then it should sound better for everyone. Then he needs to get a stand so the speakers are pointing straight at his ears at gigs too. I've used this tactic successfully more than once. [/quote] Possible alternative way to the same end: Buy/lend him a wireless rig, so he can go walkabout, and find out how crap he sounds for himself. Edited October 25, 2015 by alyctes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 All the posts about getting him to listen to how crap he sounds are making the assumption that he will think it sounds as crap as everyone else does. The fact that he continues to use his particular sound would unfortunately tend to indicate that he's quite happy with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyctes Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1445781616' post='2894101'] All the posts about getting him to listen to how crap he sounds are making the assumption that he will think it sounds as crap as everyone else does. The fact that he continues to use his particular sound would unfortunately tend to indicate that he's quite happy with it. [/quote] True. But actually knowing that is a big step towards sorting it out - one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 [quote name='alyctes' timestamp='1445786849' post='2894162'] True. But actually knowing that is a big step towards sorting it out - one way or another. [/quote] Indeed. An old mate of mine got a bit of a wake up call when he finally joined a band that had the sense to explain to him that the white noise he enjoyed through his rig in his bedroom, was not suitable for a band environment. Fortunately he took it onboard and sorted it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 [quote name='ubit' timestamp='1445710422' post='2893682'] Has anyone asked if this guy is maybe a mate as well as a band member? [/quote] If he was a "mate" in the true sense of the word, then he would take on board the other band member's suggestions and try to solve the problem, instead of dismissing their suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1445792194' post='2894210'] If he was a "mate" in the true sense of the word, then he would take on board the other band member's suggestions and try to solve the problem, instead of dismissing their suggestions. [/quote] Again, it's not always that easy. I have a mate who is great at being passively aggressive and an expert at getting what he wants. He is also our guitarist. There's never black and white when it comes to friendships. The op said he didn't want to go down this route and everyone still thinks kick him out, it's easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 [quote name='ubit' timestamp='1445800166' post='2894341']...The op said he didn't want to go down this route and everyone still thinks kick him out, it's easy. [/quote] This is (the relevant part of...) the OP's question... [quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1445693064' post='2893470']... ...Before you all rush to say "get rid of him" or find another band i would say he can actually play and is a good well learned musician its just the f***ing awful sound he gets. How would you fellow regular weekend warriors approach this potentially Spinal Tap strop of the year..? [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 [quote name='alyctes' timestamp='1445778064' post='2894039'] Possible alternative way to the same end: Buy/lend him a wireless rig, so he can go walkabout, and find out how crap he sounds for himself. [/quote] Cheaper alternative: 30ft lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 [quote name='ubit' timestamp='1445800166' post='2894341'] The op said he didn't want to go down this route and everyone still thinks kick him out, it's easy. [/quote] I still think 'kick him out', but I don't think it's easy. The alternatives are to make him see reason, put up with him, or leave the band in its current line-up. I still favour the idea of everyone leaving except him... pretty crap when he finds out of course, but that's life, if he doesn't want to get his act together and he doesn't mind irritating everyone else with his selfishness, then perhaps he deserves it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthedoghouse Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Another vote for making a decent recording and and band listening to it together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) I have concluded, based on playing with a whole range of guitarists, that they hear music differently in terms of band mix than most other people and most if not all play too loud. Some have painfully screechy tone particularly at the front of the audience. I'm talking small club or pub venue type places, and those with very hard acoustics (extensive wood panelling for instance) make it worse, although outdoor gigs are less of a problem. It would certainly help for your guitarist to elevate his amp although if he has hearing deficiency it will probably just inflict more screech on the band. I definitely think there's a issue in bands of individuals (mostly guitarists, singers and drummers) requiring too much in the mix so that the mix sounds unbalanced (compared to a recorded sound) and others turn up to compensate - I've noticed in the band I play in that if I turn up the mid range on my bass (so becoming slightly more clear and prominent) the guitarist usually turn his amp up a few seconds later to regain a position at the head of the mix - regardless of whether the guitar should be up there at that point. Then when he drops out of rhythm for a solo the band suddenly becomes a well balanced unit. Guitarists also seem to eq sometimes with ludicrously boosted bass and treble and scooped mid range (on querying this I was told that this is the classic eq arrangement for that particular type of gear). As I say I'm pretty sure it's all about perception (and maybe a little ego). No easy answer but another way you could go is to get someone independent to either mix the band or at least comment. Added to that elevating the guitar amp. A word of warning with the latter, if hearing is compromised it will possibly make matters worse - I played in a band where the guitarist did exactly this - but had badly compromised hearing and could obviously hear no upper frequencies. It just hurt everyone else's hearing in the band. Guitarists and drummers wearing ear plugs are also bad news in my experience as well!!!! Edited October 25, 2015 by drTStingray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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