Bass for theatre work

[flutophilus]

Hi,

I converted to bass from guitar about five years ago and have been playing pop covers with friends, just for fun, from Beatles to Razorlight.

However, because I can sight-read the dots and because I'm involved in theatre in other ways, recently I've been playing for theatre bands.

I play through a Roland Cube 100 which is usually fed into the sound desk.

I have about £1000 budget for a new bass. I'm looking for a wide range of tones from one instrument (there's no room to have more than one in the "pit"), it must be comfortable to play sitting down as well. I usually play with a pick, often a felt pick.

I was thinking that an active bass would give me the control I need without getting to the amp (which can sometimes be hard to reach). But I'm worried about there being more to go wrong. I currently have an old Yamaha RBX passive. Totally simple and honest.

I also think that a bass with a single volume control is easier to work as frequently I need to change volume within a piece of music.

Obviously I'm looking for pro quality and reliability.

What do you guys think, and where can I go to try out some decent basses? (I'm within easy travelling of London, Birmingham, MK, Oxford, Cambridge)

I'm not hung-up on any brands.

Thanks in advance,

[Alastair]

A MM nice Bongo or stingray HH...or a G&L of some sort...yum yum would do that job fine

[Owen]

Whatever it is (and let's face it, in this economic climate you can get anything for that kind of budget 2nd hand) make sure it is shielded properly. There is nothing like a theater to show up a bass that is unshielded if it has anything active on-board.

[chris_b]

One of the best sounding basses that I've heard in a theatre was a 6 string headless graphite Status (don't know the model). I normally don't like Status but this sounded good!
Of course, if you’re checking out quality basses you should always give a 5 string Lakland an audition!

[Shockwave]

See, if you wanted a very simple sound that looks the part, that could not go wrong, i would consider a 51 P bass reissue in Tobacco burst, or butterscotch, Its very fitting for the theatre part and has an excellent sound. Very simple to use, And would sound different to your RBX due to the single coil in the 51. And just switch between the two.

I find that a musicman would probably be a bit too much in a theater setting, I havent really been a huge fan of picked stingray sounds (Apart from Jethro tull of course!)

[Mokl]

I reckon a Lakland 5 string would fit the bill perfectly here. The one I had was absolutely perfect for a functions band playing a very diverse set. It was very playable and I could always find an appropriate tone to suit the music. Great basses!

[Mokl]

P.S. I have never had an active bass cr@p out on me during a gig. Make sure you carry a spare battery and you should be fine. You could also consider getting a bass with active/passive switching.

[molan]

Have you considered headless basses?

If space is tight then this would give you a surprising amount of additional room to move. I have a baby Zon that's really flexible and very comfortable to play sitting down, pretty rare in the UK though.

Kubicki's are useful for quick sound changing as they have a six way switch that goes from 3 very usable passive sounds (vaguely like a P, a J & a mid cut) to active with a volume boost and also a very useful sixth position which is a mute.

There's quite a volume jump from passive to active as well.

Twin humbuckers and well shielded too

[Dr.Dave]

I'm thinking practicalities - you say you're pushed for space in the pit so a headless sounds good to me. My 3000 has a single vol,the active circuit gives about any sound you want. It's not for sale but if you hunt around you'llhave plenty of change from your grand.
Enough to have side LEDs installed. They'd help a bunch in dark places like orch pits.

[SJA]

[quote name='Shockwave' post='279684' date='Sep 8 2008, 01:44 PM']See, if you wanted a very simple sound that looks the part, that could not go wrong, i would consider a 51 P bass reissue in Tobacco burst, or butterscotch, Its very fitting for the theatre part and has an excellent sound. Very simple to use, And would sound different to your RBX due to the single coil in the 51.[/quote]

surely the s/c pickup would buzz like the proverbial under all the theatre lights?

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='molan' post='279696' date='Sep 8 2008, 01:55 PM']Have you considered headless basses?

Kubicki's are useful for quick sound changing as they have a six way switch that goes from 3 very usable passive sounds (vaguely like a P, a J & a mid cut) to active with a volume boost and also a very useful sixth position which is a mute.

There's quite a volume jump from passive to active as well.

Twin humbuckers and well shielded too [/quote]

+1 to that - I've played Molan's Kubicki (considered buying it, too) and it's particularly impressive at instant versatility.

[Alastair]

[quote name='SJA' post='279708' date='Sep 8 2008, 02:05 PM']surely the s/c pickup would buzz like the proverbial under all the theatre lights?[/quote]
I though P bass split coil was humbucking...am I wrong?

[acidbass]

Do you play upright? A lot of theatre scores require the use of bowed notes, lengths of which you simply cannot achieve with a fretted electric. Maybe one of those electric uprights would be a more fitting solution if you were comfortable with it?

[Doddy]

[quote name='Alastair' post='279743' date='Sep 8 2008, 02:59 PM']I though P bass split coil was humbucking...am I wrong? [/quote]

The precision pick up was single coil until '57 I believe.

For theatre work,I've always used either a Fender Jazz or Precision and never had a problem. It would also be worth investing in a Volume pedal for major volume changes or to just cut your signal during quiet moments.

[andy67]

if you're happy with your yamaha why change brand?

I have tried all sorts of basses and still go back to Yamaha. TRB series and my favourite is the Yamaha Attitude - based on a fusion of Fender Telecaster and Precesion basses. More tone and aggression than you could ask for....

Try one: [url="http://www.yamaha-europe.com/yamaha_europe/uk/10_musical_instruments/30_guitars_basses_amps/70_bass_guitars/10_bass_guitars/40_attitude_basses/ATT_Limited_II/index.html"]http://www.yamaha-europe.com/yamaha_europe...d_II/index.html[/url]

they now come in 3 colours: Lava red, Black and Sea Foam green.

andy

[Alastair]

[quote name='Doddy' post='279749' date='Sep 8 2008, 03:05 PM']The precision pick up was single coil until '57 I believe.

For theatre work,I've always used either a Fender Jazz or Precision and never had a problem. It would also be worth investing in a Volume pedal for major volume changes or to just cut your signal during quiet moments.[/quote]

Oops missed the '51 bit! Stupid me

[guyl]

+1 for a "hum free" bass (not that I've ever found one!)

+1 for 1 volume only. preferably that doesn't change the tone as you increase volume

-1 for the headless idea. I'm not sure space is normally is so tight that you can't fit in a couple of inches of headstock

-1 for worrying about bowing. It's a great idea to learn upright though - just for the fun of it!

[mike257]

I'm going to throw in a recommendation for Sandberg here. I picked up a California JM4 off this very forum not long ago, and it actually gets more love and attention from me than my Stingray does, which I thought would never happen in a million years.

It's got a real range of sounds from the Jazz/MM pickups and 2 band eq, and there's a active/passive switch for going old-school. Most importantly, it plays like an absolute dream and is one of the best put-together basses I've ever come across. Ticks all the boxes for me. You'll pick up a new one inside your budget, and could get a 5er if you need the extra range.

IMHO, of course!

[flutophilus]

Thanks for all the ideas. In answer to a few questions - there are shows that need double-bass (like Cole Porter, Rodgers and Hammerstein), then there are shows that are for bass guitar (Rent, Full Monty, Panto) , I don't think there are many that need both, though there must be some. I'm looking at getting some form of electric upright as I can bow, but that's another thread !

There's names mentioned here (Sandberg, Lakland, Kubicki) I hadn't even heard of, shows how much I don't know - I just play the thing. So I've been clicking around the net to find those.

I've certainly nothing against Yamaha, I don't know about the modern ones but mine (dating from around 95) is a quality instrument for the price I paid and has done me well, just a little lacking in range of tones. Don;t seem to see them around these days, I bought mine at Chappelss in Milton Keynes - long gone.

One of the things I find is that some basses that are balanced on the strap are neck-heavy when seated so I'll definitely be needing to try some of these ideas out. I hadn't considered headless - they don't seem to be so popular these days for some reason. Don't they need special strings and things? There have been times when I've been jammed between the drummer and the keyboard when a headless might have been useful ! But normally there's room for the headstock. What I don't want is instruments sitting on stands where they can get kicked by the drummer.

As for Fender, I see that the Deluxe's are Active so I will take a look at them.

I have a personal taste for flatwounds if that makes any difference.

Volume pedals a good idea but I'm so not used to having one I fear I'd have it turned off at the wrong time, but any suggestions on a good one?

I agree about the noise issue and the need for shielding. Really important.

Side LED's are a fun idea but I think I'd have to take a bit of stick if I had those on - I can imagine the band saying things like "does it light up where to put your fingers". As long is it's got reasonably decent markers on the front and top I'll be OK.

Any good shops where they stock a range of good basses and know what they are doing ? (London, Midlands, East Anglia) I'm not going to buy on the internet as I want it set up properly.

BTW I have to say that basses and guitars are really good value. I play flute and instruments up to about £1500 are considered student grade. Pros will pay tens of thousands. It's the same with violins - and have you seen the cost of double basses? £1000 wouldn't buy you a decent bow.

Cheers

[WalMan]

G&L L2500 - if you can find one over here.

Active & passive & switchable for a variety of tones quickly.

Came to these late, but they are a cracking bass IMO

[url="http://www.glguitars.com/instruments/instruments.asp?prcode=l2500"]Details[/url]

[url="http://www.glguitars.com/reviews/L2500.asp"]Review[/url]

[JD1]

I've just done a production of Jesus Christ Superstar and used a Warwick FNA Jazzman. I found it nice and versatile. The well voiced mid control gave me more definition and honk in the busy stuff like "What's the Buzz", I switched to both pick ups and boosted the treble a bit for the slap passages in the Overture and "Heaven On Their Minds", and I backed off the mid and treble for stuff like "I Don't Know How To Love Him". It also has a passive / active switch.

[MuseMatt]

[quote name='JD1' post='279876' date='Sep 8 2008, 07:06 PM']I've just done a production of Jesus Christ Superstar and used a Warwick FNA Jazzman. I found it nice and versatile. The well voiced mid control gave me more definition and honk in the busy stuff like "What's the Buzz", I switched to both pick ups and boosted the treble a bit for the slap passages in the Overture and "Heaven On Their Minds", and I backed off the mid and treble for stuff like "I Don't Know How To Love Him". It also has a passive / active switch.[/quote]
that's really cool! Very funky basslines in that one (are there any sheets for that online btw?)

I'd recommend a lakland myself, because of the wide range of tonal variety it offers! They usually have great preamps and pickups and are very solid.

[bass_ferret]

Not sure why everyone is telling you to get a 5 string

Lots of options are available - just look at For Sale. If you are looking to buy new then there are a few specialist bass shops. The Gallery in London is a lot of peoples go to shop. There is also the Bass Merchant in Essex, Overwater in Carlisle for those oop north, not sure if the Bass Centre in London has reopened.

Get this months Bass Guitar magazine and you will find a few shops running ad's.

[lowdown]

Having done loads of shows over the last 20 odd years.
I can tell you that you need a bass with no noise [Hum etc]
A good volume pedal.
A good DI Box [Otherwise you will be provided with a basic one from the sound team]
My trusty Sans-amp has done me good for years.
And get a good set of headphones [ Otherwise you will be provided with a set - usally S**T]
Amps will not come into play [Or only for your own monitoring - and at low volume ]
And of the last few years , nearly every show i have done has required a 5 STRING.
When the conductors down beat comes in ,or the click starts, you wont have time to start messing with D-Tuners.

Also comming into play sound wise..........
The director might have a moan,
Or the Gay west end wendy MD having a moan. [ Bass is to loud - its always to loud, or thats i am always being told ]
And always the straight out of school sound engineer, with his book on EQ,
Cutting all frequencies above 500 khz [ They dont think the Bass goes up that high ]

You cant go wrong with a MusicMan 5 string...even with EQ set flat, still sounds punchy and
Second hand you can pick real bargains at the moment..

Shows seem to be getting harder and harder...
Sometimes doubling on Upright / EUB...
And at least one number on Fretless.
Usually a combination of musical styles....
The list goes on and on...
Oh yer .................
You will need plenty of thick skin....

If all that dont put you off....

Welcome to the 'Business of show'...

Garry

[Gareth Hughes]

I've done a lot of theatre work in the past ten years (RENT, 42nd St, West Side Story, Copacobana, Hair, etc) and the only sonic requirement that was specified was a fretless for two or three tunes in RENT. Point being that, IME at least, there is one tone to rule them all. Get a good sound with whatever and it'll work for pretty much anything.

If you like the bass you have and want more versatile sounds I'd invest in a multi-effects unit. Most of the variations you'll need in theatre work would be covered by different EQ settings rather different basses. (As for actual effects, I've only ever been asked for an Octave and Chorus for RENT).

4 string vs 5 string? Again, I'd say I've come across about 5% of sub-4 range notes written in scores. I've yet to work with an MD that was a stickler for which range an Eb or D was in.

I've done '42nd St' on electric bass and 'West Side Story' on upright. Again, neither MD was particular. Certainly in small pits I've used an electric on upright charts for convenience. My real upright and electric bass took up too much space on 'The Witches Of Eastwick' so I used my Eminence Portable Upright. All sounded good.

The sad part to realize is that the audience rarely, if ever, will know the difference. Sometimes even the MD doesn't care to hear the difference. As long as they hear what they perceive as 'bass' they don't care what brand, shape, size, etc it is. Conversely, sometimes an MD will balk at your high-end custom bass simply because it isn't a Fender P-Bass.

So i bought a Fender P a few months back, and it's laughable how many people now comment on my sound. (No jokes about how crap my sound probably was before;)