What is the point of 200w amps

[fretmeister]

I play with woodwind players. 200Wwould let me have plenty of headroom for that task and still be enough for the whole orchestra.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1447100195' post='2904914']
That's cheating, that is. Them's [i][b]valve [/b][/i]watts which are a whole nother thang.
[/quote]A watt is a watt. If you want to do the same with 100w SS as you can with 100w valve use a compressor.
[quote]Surely a Jack cabinet with a 200W amp and you are good to go Bill. [/quote]I only run 160w into mine.

[ahpook]

[quote name='zero9' timestamp='1447098485' post='2904887']
I wish I still had my Trace 4x10 150W combo, way more grunt than my current class D affair supposedly rated at 500W.
[/quote]

I gigged for years with a TE 150w and a Peavey 4x10.

Never lacking in power.

Edited November 9, 2015 by ahpook

[bonzodog]

I may not have explained my question very well.
What I mean is for example, if I was looking to buy a new bass head and looked at for instance the TC Electronics BH250 against the BH550, then if I look at reviews for both, there are lots of questions as to whether the BH250 is loud enough, and some say possibly not, where as the BH550 will be loud enough but also quiet enough to use at home. So what is the point in risking buying the BH250 if its not loud enough when its the same size, weight etc ? Is it just down to price.

[SwamiRob]

Pretty much, and has been said before features differ between different sizes of many lines of amps. Alot of people wouldn't consider there to be any risk of not having enough power with that much amp though (me certainly not being one of them unfortunately) if you have a bit of experience you know what you do and don't need with your gear.

It can also be a pain in arse to have an amp that's got a ton of headroom for quieter stuff as it can take alot of messing about finely trying to get the right volume, been having alot of that practising with my VBA400 in a tiny room recently, and out guitarist has had the same with his JCM2000 too. The VBA400 is not an amp I would worry about having enough volume with unless I was to perhaps play at a football stadium...

[RandomBass]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1447106632' post='2905013']
A watt is a watt. If you want to do the same with 100w SS as you can with 100w valve use a compressor.
[/quote]
And that's exactly what I do with my puny Trace Elliot 200watt head, into kappalite drivers.

[HazBeen]

Emotion and opinion vs science is always a danger, read what BFM posted please.

The simple fact is that the volume difference between a 200 and 500w head through the same cab is almost negligible. It also does not do anything re cutting through a mix, that is about EQing and not power.

So to answer the question: why do people buy 200 watt heads? Because in most settings they work as well as 500 and are cheaper is probably not far off.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='RandomBass' timestamp='1447108051' post='2905030']
And that's exactly what I do with my puny Trace Elliot 200watt head, into kappalite drivers.
[/quote] Trace Elliot watts are not the same as any other watts.

OT but how does it sound into the Kappalites? a lot of the kappalite equipped cabs you see on the web seem to have people put hundreds of watts into them - my wee walkabout cannae do that!

[VTypeV4]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1447111028' post='2905050']
Trace Elliot watts are not the same as any other watts.

[/quote]

So where do my 200 Trace Elliot valve watts sit in all of this?

(Chuckles and watches from afar )

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='VTypeV4' timestamp='1447121434' post='2905090']


So where do my 200 Trace Elliot valve watts sit in all of this?

(Chuckles and watches from afar )
[/quote] oh you have no idea how substandard your watts are. Tell you what ill help you out and buy your amp off you so you can buy something better? The things we do to help each other on here

[TrevorR]

These discussions do make me chuckle when they come up. My first amp was a 75W Laney Linebacker 1x15 combo. "As much as you'll ever need for a good few years and will see you right when you are playing in bands." said the guy in the shop (who was a mate of my brothers and in his band so we pretty much trusted his advice. And so it did, struggling manfully against drummers and guitarists.

A few years later I upgraded to a 200w TE 1215 combo when they first came out. Didn't go for the 80 or 150w combos as they had the 7 band graphic and (for no good reason other than wanting it) I wanted the 12 band... More watts than I could ever dream of needing and, sure enough for 20 something years it worked on all sorts stages and settings and I don't think I ever had the volume past 50%.

Back then 200w was more than anyone ever needed in real life and beyond the dreams of headroom. 500w amps were for people who played the local Enormodome and had roadies, and artic lorries... OK I never played death metal but played with a few loud drummers. The guitar player in Threshold even borrowed it off me for a couple of side project gigs where he was playing bass. All agreed, great sounding amp and more than you would ever realistically need.

Reading all these threads about how I couldn't possibly play the Dog n Scratchett without a 500w rig at least does make me smile about the good old days. Sometimes I wonder how come the design and efficiency of bass gear has gone so badly backward over the last 20 or so years that 200w is barely considered a practice amp these days. ;-) Today I have a 500w amp - coz I liked the sounds the look not for a volume upgrade - (TE RIP) and it barely goes over about 30%!

Always set up an amp in the same way. Play as hard as you will ever play in a gig. Input gain up until clipping just starts. Back off a smidgen. Master volume to taste. Sorted.

Funny how times and attitudes change over time. 200w used to be a truly aspirational spec. Mind you, there will be some around here who remember when 17 and 30w were truly aspirational and more than anyone could ever realistically need! #oldfogeyme

Edited November 10, 2015 by TrevorR

[mazdah]

My friend used Ampeg BA-115 100W combo with single "15 speaker when she and her band opened for Depeche Mode few years ago.

Why should I need more power for mediocre bar gig?

[randythoades]

I use a GK MB200 into a single 8ohm cab (so only pushing about 130w) for playing 70s rock (Lizzy, Bowie, Skynyrd, Bolan) and it rarely needs to approach halfway. Any more needed and I would worry about my hearing and put through the PA. I play with 2 guitars too, one with 2 Fender combos in stereo and one with JCM marshall and 4x12 cab. Everyone is an experienced player and there is plenty of room to be heard.
Most of my early days were gigging with a Trace BLX80 or 100w Commando combos and they were plenty.

[CamdenRob]

I don't really know about how loud the various wattages are supposed to be, but I do have personal experience with my current gear obviously.

For a loud rock band rehearsal the MB200 into a 8ohm berg cn210 isn't enough, but my Glockenklang (pushing 350 watts @ 8ohm) into the same cab has plenty to spare, I usually have the master set just over halfway. If I was to need a full fat rig for any situation I'd just add another cn210 and I can't imagine that ever wouldn't be enough.

The advantage of the MB200 is that it is tiny, sounds great, and through a wizzy10 is loud enough for anything without drums.

Edited November 10, 2015 by CamdenRob

[Roland Rock]

I play with a deep, clean tone,and this needs more power than usual.

I've tried various amps ranging from 100w (valve) to 440w (ss) to 900w (class d)

None have come close to the tone that I get (at gigging volume) with my "overkill" 1800w SS amp

All of these amps can do gigging volume, but it's about the tone.

[JTUK]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1447111028' post='2905050']
Trace Elliot watts are not the same as any other watts.

OT but how does it sound into the Kappalites? a lot of the kappalite equipped cabs you see on the web seem to have people put hundreds of watts into them - my wee walkabout cannae do that!
[/quote]

Because the cab is built to be inefficient, IMO. The simple compromise game means you have to rob Peter to pay Paul.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1447143340' post='2905129']
I play with a deep, clean tone,and this needs more power than usual.

I've tried various amps ranging from 100w (valve) to 440w (ss) to 900w (class d)

None have come close to the tone that I get (at gigging volume) with my "overkill" 1800w SS amp

All of these amps can do gigging volume, but it's about the tone.
[/quote]

Exactly. It you just want a rumble and thump then you can get away with less power as you aren't going for clarity across the range.
Some bass want just this and it suits them to sit. Gtrs (many) also want it as they don't want bass players to do anything but prop them up
so a distant rumble is the job.... In a power trio, the Gtr wants or has to have the entire spectrum of sound and he has enough on his plate that
he doesn't want to content with bass as well. It is better it is just in the background.
If you want/need to be heard then you need a set-up that can deliver and ragging the hell out of old PV combo's- which I'm sure we've all done..
is not the same thing as having a useable sound....but that depends on who is listening and what they want to hear.

[randythoades]

I must respectfully disagree with CamdenRob. I played an outdoor gig last year playing contemporary and classic rock (Foo Fighters, Whitesnake, Deep Purple, Nickelback) and I used my violin bass through my GKM200 into a single standard Ashdown 2x12 cab and had no problem being heard. We recorded it on a handheld recorder out in the crowd and everyone clearly audible in the mix. I play mainly social clubs and the like so we don't need to be too loud, but my little GK is usually a bit overkill and plenty of bands play with 'practice amps'. I believe that other comments are correct, if you have good mix and EQ, a good drummer and respectful players, everyone can be heard with pretty 'small' amp.
As far as I am aware, the doubling of power only adds 3 or 4db to the overall 'volume' anyway.

[JTUK]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1447142266' post='2905124']
I don't really know about how loud the various wattages are supposed to be, but I do have personal experience with my current gear obviously.

For a loud rock band rehearsal the MB200 into a 8ohm berg cn210 isn't enough, but my Glockenklang (pushing 350 watts @ 8ohm) into the same cab has plenty to spare, I usually have the master set just over halfway. If I was to need a full fat rig for any situation I'd just add another cn210 and I can't imagine that ever wouldn't be enough.

The advantage of the MB200 is that it is tiny, sounds great, and through a wizzy10 is loud enough for anything without drums.
[/quote]

I'm always surrised a 210 could be considered enough, but you have to hear these in context.
Volume wise, maybe... tone is another question as you are asking a lot of the cab.

As per volume... most couldn't hear the difference on a Marshall amp between 1 and 10... which leads into the old joke
about them going up to 11... because everybody use to max out ALL the controls. What does that tell you about how
Marshall did things,...?? People used to say they were blindingly loud on 1... when it may well have been not far off full power anyway.
Clever old marketing tool led everyone to believe Marshalls were louder :lol;

[Marc S]

I've got a 500W rig, for bigger gigs (i.e. halls, and outdoor gigs). But I also have a 200W combo (Carvin).
The 200W combo is ideal for more acoustic type gigs, especially when I'm playing Double Bass,
or when I'm playing bass guitar, and the venue has its' own PA. It's also big enough for many pub gigs.

The 200W Carvin is a godsend sometimes - especially when also lugging a DB around, or town centre venues,
where parking is tricky or non-existant. It's usually plenty loud enough for most situations.
I recently saw a local Gypsy-Jazz outfit, where there DB player played through a Phil Jones Briefcase
he was plenty loud enough, and the venue was an old church. The PJ amp is only 150W, I think?

Again, loudness and wattage depend on all sorts of factors. But I can assure you, if you were playing DB,
plus carrying a backup BG or EUB, and a couple of 4x12 cabs - you'd need a roadie and a van!
As you get older, smaller, lightweight, portable amps are a must - I wouldn't be without my 200W amp

Edited November 10, 2015 by Marc S

[mrtcat]

I played a short showcase set at the Freddie Gee drum academy in Winchester a couple of years ago. I used a GK MB200 into a 4 ohm berg 2 x 12. It was more than loud enough to keep up with Gregg Bisonette playing at full war volume with headroom to spare. Unless you want super super clean and have a feather light touch the only way 200watts isn't enough for a pub is if your cab isnt efficient enough. I see no problem with having 500-1000 watts though as the prices are reasonable and all of these amps have a volume knob so can be used at home too.

Edited November 10, 2015 by mrtcat

[40hz]

FWIW I gig a Markbass LM250 Blackline through a GK MBE-II 410 (4ohm). I've played this setup at a massive outdoor stage (Brizefest) and numerous larger venues and not struggled for clean loud tone. That is also nowhere near maxed out too, plenty on tap in reserve. Funny how this would be considered a 'low power' setup.

Edit - not quite so clean with the Spector . That thing is growl central!

Edited November 10, 2015 by 40hz

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1447146663' post='2905158']
I'm always surrised a 210 could be considered enough, but you have to hear these in context.
Volume wise, maybe... tone is another question as you are asking a lot of the cab.
[/quote]

To be honest, i've not tried it at a gig without PA support. I have this setup out of necessity and it's OK for rehearsals, I can hear myself and it's nice and clean and deep.

I think I'd want another though if I was gigging without PA support.

[chris_b]

What's the point of a 200 watt amp? For me, no point.

My gear has to cover many different playing situations, from acoustic duo's to Led Zeppilin bands. Thanks to the volume controls I can use the same amp for each gig and with multiple cab configs.

[Twigman]

Back in the day I started with a Carlsboro Cobra 90W head into a noname 1x15 cab and it was plenty loud enough but sounded sh*t.
I then got myself a Sessionette 100W 4x10 combo which saw me play places like the Marquee and The Mean Fiddler without any fuss.
These days I use a TecAmp Puma900 into a selection of Barefaced gear - overkill for sure - but I love having the headroom.
I don't play pubs, mind.