What is the point of 200w amps

[Lw.]

I think it very much depends on your sound/situation; for one of my bands playing pop/rock in smallish pubs around London a tiny class-d 200w amp & lightweight cab would be more than enough but I know for certain that same set-up wouldn't work for the gigs I do with my metal/hardcore band, sometimes you do just need more.

Saying that, when I was younger I was playing 1k plus capacity venues with the same 300w head (plus two cheap Peavey cabs) I use now & the volume was hardly ever past 1 o'clock, anything more would have been obscene.

[VTypeV4]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1447138654' post='2905104']
oh you have no idea how substandard your watts are. Tell you what ill help you out and buy your amp off you so you can buy something better? The things we do to help each other on here
[/quote]

Brilliant!

[No lust in Jazz]

Regarding 'gear' in my experience, some works / blends better than others - As others have said in the past, gigs were still successful with bass amps of much smaller wattages than are commonplace today.

My most recent gigs have been with a Phil Jones rig and the bass sound has been phenomenal - I've owned a load of stuff and believe that this is down to the thought process applied to its design rather than what's on tap with the volume control.

But the biggest improvement I have made, is due to my attempts to isolate the guitar sound from by bass rig - usually with the mixing desk cover.So that much of the uncontrolled mid frequencies from the guitar are not straight down my ears.

[randythoades]

Is some of it just down to the fact that manufacturers need us to buy new gear and therefore change their emphasis on products?. Thus, 100-200w amps are now classed as practice amps, whereas 800w+ are classed as Pro? No one wants to turn up to an audition with a 'practice amp' so we are conditioned to buy bigger than we need.
Kind of like with cars or motorbikes... no one actually needs a 2.5 litre v8 engine in the UK, a 0.6 litre Smart car or 1 litre Micra will easily go faster than the legal speed limit, and yet people believe that they need a big executive car or a 4x4 in order to lead the life they aspire to. The power of advertising is a wonderful thing!

Edited November 10, 2015 by randythoades

[chris_b]

I get better mileage out of my current 2.4 ltr car than a previous 1.6 ltr version.

And I get a better sound out of my 500 watt amp when it's ticking over than I would if I was pushing a smaller amp flat out.

So sometimes, bigger actually is better.

[redstriper]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1447143340' post='2905129']
I play with a deep, clean tone,and this needs more power than usual.

I've tried various amps ranging from 100w (valve) to 440w (ss) to 900w (class d)

None have come close to the tone that I get (at gigging volume) with my "overkill" 1800w SS amp

All of these amps can do gigging volume, but it's about the tone.
[/quote]

What is the "overkill" 1800w SS amp you use and what cab(s) do you use with it?
I also play with a deep, clean reggae tone and I'm quite happy with my Markbass LM11 into 2x15" cabs, but it lacks the sheer oomph of a big rig.

[mep]

My old Trace AH200 running at 4 ohms was loud enough for most pub gigs without PA support and I rarely went past 2 on the main volume output.

[6v6]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1447093221' post='2904811']
Personally I think the amount of power lots of people use for pub gigs these day is ludicrous.
Back when I was gigging regularly and going to see lots of live local bands in the late 80's/early 90's nobody used anything over 150 watts for bass & I cannot recall anybody ever being too quiet.
[/quote]

This.

I've always found the whole "without PA support" thing puzzling as well, I always put a little bit of bass through the PA so I don't have to run my rig on stage to levels which put the bass/drums level out of whack.

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1447161068' post='2905357']


What is the "overkill" 1800w SS amp you use and what cab(s) do you use with it?
I also play with a deep, clean reggae tone and I'm quite happy with my Markbass LM11 into 2x15" cabs, but it lacks the sheer oomph of a big rig.
[/quote]

I use an Avalon U5 pre > Crest CA9 power amp > Barefaced Super Twin

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1447161068' post='2905357']


What is the "overkill" 1800w SS amp you use and what cab(s) do you use with it?
I also play with a deep, clean reggae tone and I'm quite happy with my Markbass LM11 into 2x15" cabs, but it lacks the sheer oomph of a big rig.
[/quote]

I use an Avalon U5 pre > Crest CA9 power amp > Barefaced Super Twin

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1447161068' post='2905357']


What is the "overkill" 1800w SS amp you use and what cab(s) do you use with it?
I also play with a deep, clean reggae tone and I'm quite happy with my Markbass LM11 into 2x15" cabs, but it lacks the sheer oomph of a big rig.
[/quote]

I use an Avalon U5 pre > Crest CA9 power amp > Barefaced Super Twin

[SwamiRob]

That the thing though, "in whack with the drums" is pretty relative. With the gain set as high as possible without any drive, my VBA probably goes up to about 10 or 11 o'clock at most club gigs I play and in no way are the drums not very clear still, that's with an NV215 too. If you like a big open sound you need the headroom. If you like a pokey sound where you have your bottom end around 100-200 and very little below it then you can be alot louder with alot less.

If sound guys put enough bottom end through the PA instead of the low end all being kick drum at the vast majority of heavy gigs then I'd happily let the PA do the very bottom of things and enjoy a little more clarity on stage. When it does happen it's a very nice thing cos I prefer to be sitting in a mix as much as possible with a reasonabley audible about of woody lows and a subtle amount of percussive clankyness going on. Makes everything alot cleaner then the gigs where there's no depth to the bass and I have to crank it up on my amp which only has a 3 band EQ and isn't the most accurate for doing stuff like that.

[redstriper]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1447169248' post='2905469']
I use an Avalon U5 pre > Crest CA9 power amp > Barefaced Super Twin
[/quote]

Thanks - I would love to compare that 1800w to my puny 500w rig

[0175westwood29]

i went for the 100w ashdown head instead of the 300 as i want to be able to get the tubes working a bit, but im never lacking volume.

if your in a loud metal band then yes 200 may be cutting it a bit close, but for pop acts or general covers ive seen alot of people using small combos around the 200/300w mark and into a pa then theres no problem.

Andy

[MWH]

[quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1447092429' post='2904801']
That said, I have a ridiculously over-powered rig for pub gigs with a 1200w / 2ohm going into 2 4x10 cabs. I only have the volume set to 1/3 but the sound is beautiful and I can play my bass very gently without being unheard.
[/quote]
So agree with this statement, I use a Fender TB1200 hybrid head into 2 X Orange OBC115 cabs, up, down, or shake da room around

[Ruck]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1447100216' post='2904916']
I'll have most of my amps up around 1' o clock on the dial, at least, and the smallest is 500w.

I think it depends what you need to hear and you are always reading here about bass players that can't hear themselves
with so many set-ups.
To me, that is all about the way you EQ the whole thing...not so much the volume.

I recently listened to a whole day of music at a charity bass and the pub hired in a P.A which had 6 boxes including subs.
After the first two bands... you couldn't hear what the bass player was playing altho you knew it was still there.
I don't know why they bothered, tbh as it was so draining and tiring on the ear.

I think many bass players can be heard..to a degree in a pub with all the guys playng loud, but what exactly can you hear and what can he play?
Maybe you don't need to hear more than they've got and maybe you don't want to...but you get a loud drummer and a pokey gtr like
a Les Paul or SG and you have a wall of sound that notr many basses and rigs will get passed ...and I mean 'passed' as in you can hear what the bass player is doing.

This free for all should not be about a wall of sound, it should be about the layers of the sound... and you need people to stay out of each others sonic space as well as staying out of their playing space...

I use what I use to make sure I can get a good sound underneath and over the top of things... not to fight them. Un fortunately it is a very rare gtr that will listen to the band and adjust his sound as he expect you to adjust yours..

I've said it before... get a band to play a straight 8 chugg parttern or shuffle... and set the bass and drums up on it.
When the keys come in..they'll automatically play something that gets out of the way..if they have any sort of brain.
Take a guess what most gtrs will do... and even if you invite them to play the exact same pattern... most will obliterate the bass in doing so
with the tone and playing style they have.

This is your problem... being oblivious.

Style of playing comes into it massively... a hard handed player will get way more volume off my bass than I ever could..but I want the amp headroom for finesse.
[/quote]

You share my sentiments exactly. Ive seen bands with bass players going into SVT CL's into 8x10's, both sides of the stage! but you couldnt pick out a note of the bass line.

[ambient]

I started a thread a few weeks ago asking why bands/guys play so loud nowadays.

Why would you want something ridiculously powerful when you're only playing in small places ?

My only amp is a 75 watt PJB Double 4 combo. It's plenty loud enough for my jazz gigs. Anything more would be totally pointless.

[bonzodog]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1447198587' post='2905807']

Why would you want something ridiculously powerful when you're only playing in small places ?

[/quote]

The question i was asking is not based on using your full 500w. What i am saying is with manufacturers offering a 200w and 500w versions of same amps at the same size then why would you go for 200w hoping it will be loud enough rather than 500w and cover all bases

[ambient]

[quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1447198840' post='2905812']
The question i was asking is not based on using your full 500w. What i am saying is with manufacturers offering a 200w and 500w versions of same amps at the same size then why would you go for 200w hoping it will be loud enough rather than 500w and cover all bases
[/quote]

No I'd go for the 200w version. I'm guessing it'd be cheaper, and possibly smaller. I simply don't need any more power, and size is important because I like to travel by train.

[Count Bassy]

Although doubling the watts "is hardly worth it" in terms of volume , is there any case for saying that if you are running a 250 watt amp at 250 watts then it is running flat out, so components will be maxxed out. For the same watts and volume from a 500W amp the amp and its components will running well below max, and hence might be more reliable?

I might be talking Bollocks.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Count Bassy

[Chienmortbb]

[quote name='SwamiRob' timestamp='1447169586' post='2905476']
If sound guys put enough bottom end through the PA instead of the low end all being kick drum at the vast majority of heavy gigs then I'd happily let the PA do the very bottom of things and enjoy a little more clarity on stage. When it does happen it's a very nice thing cos I prefer to be sitting in a mix as much as possible with a reasonabley audible about of woody lows and a subtle amount of percussive clankyness going on. Makes everything alot cleaner then the gigs where there's no depth to the bass and I have to crank it up on my amp which only has a 3 band EQ and isn't the most accurate for doing stuff like that.
[/quote]

Why do they do that? Are the recruited with sub standard hearing? Almost ruined the recent Glenn Hughes gig in Southampton for me.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Chienmortbb

[HazBeen]

We are still discussing based upon non scientific parameters, so this discussion could go on ad infinitum. I will be subbing a Metallica tribute on Friday, am "only" taking my Mesa Boogie Scout 15 combo. Puny @ 300 watts........ I will be loud enough for sure.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1447236500' post='2905931']Why do they do that? Are the recruited with sub standard hearing?[/quote]

No but I bet a lot of them have hearing damage!

[Lozz196]

The Aguilar Tonehammer 350 I`ve been using is plenty powerful. Into my Barefaced Super 12T the volume is usually around 9 o`clock, maybe just past that. And we`re not a quiet band, pretty full-on punk. OK, I have a lot of drive and gain which take them doqn you have to up the master vol to compensate but even so, I`m probably not using anymore than 100 maybe 150 watts I`d guess. I just like having an amp I don`t have to push hard in order to be heard.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1447198840' post='2905812']
The question i was asking is not based on using your full 500w. What i am saying is with manufacturers offering a 200w and 500w versions of same amps at the same size then why would you go for 200w hoping it will be loud enough rather than 500w and cover all bases
[/quote]
I'll take the 200watts. 500watts will hardly be louder, it will be heavier and more expensive.

I'm managing to get by nicely on a choice of 100watts, 250watts, or 300 watts.