Sansamp VT-21 how to connect it?

[phil.c60]

Hi This is new territory for me so please excuse the stupid questions.
I have just received the Sansamp VT21 character pedal I bought from Colgraff and am itching to try it tonight.
I've never used anything like this, so how best should I connect it?
Passive P-Bass and LM3.
The input is self selecting on the LM3, ie it will take both passive and active as understand it, so could I plug it straight in to the input? Or should it be in the effects send/return?
Thanks All.
(Just don't want any unexpected and upsetting fizzing noises and smoke).

[cheddatom]

you won't damage anything (unless you have everything on 11). I would try it both into the normal input, and the effects return (not in the loop, just straight into the return). See which one sounds better. Let us know!

[phil.c60]

OK Thnaks: will try it both ways and then twiddle all the knobs over the next couple of evenings. I'll try to be as scientific (!) as possible, but without getting into the whole "what it sounds like to me isn't what it may sound like to you" thing, and I'll try not to annoy the neighbours !

[Cosmo Valdemar]

For the full effect of the pedal, plug into the amp's effects return. This way you'll be getting the tone of the pedal alone and won't have any colouration from the amp.
Of course this only really works if it's going to be an 'always on' pedal. If it's going to be an occasional effect go into the amp's input as normal.

[phil.c60]

Great - that makes sense. Will have a good go tonight. Thanks again. By the way, i would simply have asked Ben, as it was his pedal so he clearly would know how to use it but he's on holiday this week.

[Roger2611]

I use one as part of my pedal board, I run it direct into the amp input with all the controls around the 12 o'clock position, without question this is the best pedal I have owned....good luck with it I hope you like it as much as I do

[phil.c60]

So far, with all the amps controls at 12.00 (except gain and master volume, for obvious reasons!) the results are marvellous. Real fat, deep, lovely chocolatey tones at the pedal settings that Sansamp suggest for SVT,
With the pedal plugged in to the input, the volume increase is considerable when it's switched on (unsurprisingly) and with the guitar volume on full the clip light flashes playing moderately hard (fingers) at anything above about 9.00 on the gain. With the guitar volume at about 2/3 the gain can be raised to about 12.00, which means if you switch the pedal off and turn the guitar volume to max the speaker volume is about the same.
With the pedal plugged din to the effects return, with the pedal on the speaker volume is about the same as it is with my passive bass ('99 Hot Rod Sepcial, P pickup up 95%, J at about 10% most of the treble wound off and flatwounds) plugged straight into the input with not much gain, so you'd have to wind the master up a lot to get a reasonable speaker volume. With the pedal off there is no preamp so no appreciable volume from my passive bass (not a surprise, really).
It strikes me, therefore that plugged in to the input with the guitar volume at 2/3 is the way to go: if you then have any pedal issues you can hit the switch, turn the pedal off and wind the guitar volume up full and carry on, whereas if you max the guitar volume and keep the gain down low if you want to carry on you've got to turn up the gain on the amp to get a sensible volume which is not as convenient.
Al this, of course, is just my initial fiddling and is with my bass, with my passive pickups (62 reissue at the neck, original J pickup at the bridge) and I'm no expert - it's my first time, I'm a pedal virgin.
All comments welcome, mods if this is turning into a subject better off in Effects I apologise and do please move it if you so wish.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

There's no right or wrong way - it's whatever you're happier with. I briefly owned the VT but my favourite is the Leeds. I always use it in the effects loop when I can but on the occasions when this has not been possible it still performs admirably straight into the front of the amp.
They are really bloody good though these pedals aren't they!

Edited November 17, 2015 by Cosmo Valdemar

[EssentialTension]

I always use the VT into the amp input. It's just another preamp so the amp sees it as an 'active' bass. Having said that I usually remain switched to 'passive' but listen out for clipping.

But whatever works for you.

[Painy]

I'm running mine straight into my amp's 'poweramp in' socket bypassing its preamp section altogether so the VT Bass is my primary preamp and volume control. That character control is an amazingly powerful toneshaping tool. The depth when dialled anti-clockwise is huge but I personally like the punchiness when it's set at about 11:30 It's not as weighty in the lows at that setting but I also run an Aphex Bass Xciter in front of it to add a load of heft so for me its the best of both worlds. If I was going into the main input on the amp then I'd probably just use the amp's eq instead of the Xciter.
Awesome little box, enjoy!

[dannybuoy]

I'd run it straight into the regular input since the Mark Bass pre is pretty much flat with all the EQ knobs at noon and the filters off.

Also IIRC the fx return gets blended 50/50 in parallel with the dry signal by default on that amp (switchable internally), which might result in less overall output volume vs having the fx loop running in series.

Edited November 17, 2015 by dannybuoy

[NancyJohnson]

I tend to have the pedal always on, so always into the effects return here.

Neither of my amps have a bypass switch, so if I go in from the front panel I'm layering drive, tone and EQ over the amp's equivalents and things just start getting mushy.

[phil.c60]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1447804326' post='2910644']
I'd run it straight into the regular input since the Mark Bass pre is pretty much flat with all the EQ knobs at noon and the filters off.

Also IIRC the fx return gets blended 50/50 in parallel with the dry signal by default on that amp (switchable internally), which might result in less overall output volume vs having the fx loop running in series.
[/quote]

That'll be why the output volume is so low when I connect it like that, then, as I said.
Front panel with it all at 12.00 seems to be the way to go - there's only one non switchable input + xlr in on an LM3, so I agree it sees my passive bass as now active which is why the gain and guitar volumes are now much lower than I would normally have used.
I'm sure it would be different with different amps - all part of the fun and what gives you GAS, I suppose!

[pete.young]

Dannybuoy is right, the effects loop on lm2 and lm3 is set to parallel by default. You can change it by moving a jumper inside the case. Effects loops are normally designed for line level voltages which you get from things like rack compressors and other studio equipment.

[cheddatom]

I use a pre-amp pedal and run it into the effects return, or power amp input (depending on which amp). If I was worried about pedal malfunction I'd set up an AB switch to switch between the pre amp pedal, and the main input on the amp. Actually that's not a bad idea in general (although the pre-amp on my peavey combo is knackered)

[TrevorR]

[quote name='phil.c60' timestamp='1447833616' post='2910696']


That'll be why the output volume is so low when I connect it like that, then, as I said.
Front panel with it all at 12.00 seems to be the way to go - there's only one non switchable input + xlr in on an LM3, so I agree it sees my passive bass as now active which is why the gain and guitar volumes are now much lower than I would normally have used.
I'm sure it would be different with different amps - all part of the fun and what gives you GAS, I suppose!
[/quote]

I'd approach it's different way. If you are running your bass vol at 2/3 instead of 9/10 then you'll be sending a poorer signal to noise ratio andare likely to be amplifying any noise along with the signal to get the volume you want.

I tend to set up the pedal as follows. I'd have the bass at the usual playing volume - for me, 10. I'd use the drive control to set the input level of the pedal/provide the level of gain and grit needed. Then I'd use the pedal volume to match the effected output with the uneffected output. (Which solves one of the problems you quote). Therefore on my VT DI pedal for me I have bass volume at 10/10, pedal drive at about 10 o'clock position and output level at about 2 o'clock. That's the way I set it up either for just DI straight into the PA or into the main input on my LMII. As others have said, I also run the amp EQ pretty much flat.

How the pedal is set up mirrors how I've always set an amp up. Use the input gain to match the max bass output to the amp (giving the best S/N ratio to the amp before the amplification happens and dialling in any grit I need). Then EQ to taste and control vol with the master as per usual. Hope that is something useful to think about, unless I've misinterpreted the question you were raising.

Edited November 18, 2015 by TrevorR