NBD - Warwick Jack Bruce Artist series

[72deluxe]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif]Hello

Once upon a time I bought this from a certain Greg here on basschat, who posted it speedily from France. Looking at his older threads I think he gets through basses - he appears to have had more basses than I have had hot dinners. Quite impressive!

This is a Warwick Jack Bruce Artist series. Same as the "Pro" series they used to do - made in Korea. Given that I have got a Korean Warwick bass and the quality was exceedingly great, and given that the price of German Warwick basses is astronomical (good quality, horrible wooden tuning pegs these days), this was very reasonable (thanks Greg). It has a mahogany through-neck, with a tigerstripe ebony fretboard (unlike other Warwicks which typically have wenge fretboards), with mahogany wings (but at this weight, it'll never fly). The neck shape is very similar to post-2000 Warwicks (a bit of a D-shape) but I have no problem with this, as I was just an ankle-biter during the Warwick late-80s "glory years" and so do not pine for C-shape necks. I have a cheap early Warwick with a "traditional" shape neck, and it is like playing a giant chopstick.

It is heavily "inspired" by the Gibson EB-3, as Jack Bruce obviously played one in the early days with Cream, whilst playing through Marshall stacks that gave no proper bass response. Although looking the same, the construction is obviously completely different; this has single-coil pickups (EB-3 had humbuckers I believe?), a two-band preamp (stacked treble/bass), a 34" scale with 24 frets (EB-3 was 30.5" with 20 frets). I have never played an EB-3, but I wager that this sounds entirely different, and only has cosmetic similarities (including a lovely colour and pointy arms).

I find the pickups to be rather large and a bit in the way; I have played a Star Bass and there is much more space by the pickups to get my chubby fingers in to do "essential" slapping and popping... just the way that Jack Bruce played, right? ("Strange Brew" is full of slapping and tapping isn't it?)

This has been modified, with the original MEC preamp taken out and a Glockenlang 2-band preamp put in instead. I don't know what ranges original MEC have (perhaps someone could enlighten me?) but this has +/-18dB treble at 18kHz and +/-14dB bass at 40Hz. This massive boost/attenuate range seems insanely excessive to me - I have no idea how you'd expect to put 18dB more treble into your preamp and not get it to peak/clip. Do people actually use these insane + ranges??? Or cut so much from their signal? ("Ah I am sounding a bit bright; better do an 18dB treble cut").

One thing I have found is that this has a very low output volume, particularly as it is quieter than an entirely passive Star Bass that I have (with identical pickups I believe). I suspect the centre-detents on the bass/treble pots are not the true centres on the preamp ranges, so it is permanently attenuating??? In any case I will have a look later; if anyone can look at a picture of the preamp and spot a problem, I would appreciate it as I am having to max out the preamp on my amp when this is set "flat". Are Glocks just quiet??
And yes, I changed the battery. Perhaps someone did a bad job of changing the preamp (the blend knob is mildly stiffer than the others for one, not sure if it is sitting lower onto the bodywork).

The action is incredibly low at the moment (not sure if other people play by blowing across the strings to make them move, or if I have bad technique and "dig in" too much) so it is rather clicky clicky clacky clacky buzz buzz so it'll need some attention.

My (poor) wife loves the colour, so that's good!

Photos are here (sorry for the duplicates, attempting to get bring out the colour with and without a flash on the camera):
[url="https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B3vzHZmGDdwKVFdNX2dvQ3ozLUE"]https://drive.google...VFdNX2dvQ3ozLUE[/url][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif]There used to be a video here but I have removed it because I suspect it was an impediment to replies, given the high levels of slapping that it involved.[/font]


[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif]And they lived all happily ever after.

The End[/font]

Edited November 22, 2015 by 72deluxe

[72deluxe]

Any tips on the preamp would be warmly welcomed!

[verb]

The Glockenlang site shows blend and vol with the preamp, if your Warwick uses their blend pot, is it the correct value for your pickups?
Are the jack connections correct? Pickup height ok?

Warwick used to use 2KHz and 100 Hz for their 2 band EQ frequencies.

[72deluxe]

Pickup height is really high in my opinion, so I would be expecting far more output. I will take a photo of the internals. Thanks for the tips.

[72deluxe]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif]So here's a photo of the guts. From what I can see, the pot to the far left (the stacked treble/bass pot) is the original MEC one (due to the big MEC written on it), with the far right (volume) also looking original (guessing from the colour of the board). The middle pot (blend) is the one that feels different in use, and also looks different, so verb is probably right that it is the wrong value??

Where do the preamp "guts" sit in amongst all of this wizardry? If a preamp is swapped out, surely all of the pots and gubbins should be different? Here I only see differences in the middle pot, so surely the actual "brains" of the preamp are still housed on the treble/bass pot??

Any explanation would be warmly welcomed. I am used to writing software, not this analogue world! I will be emailing Warwick to see what they can say.

Pictures:[/font]
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Edited November 27, 2015 by 72deluxe

[Mykesbass]

Looks great!

Worth putting a specific help thread in repairs and technical - a lot the right people may miss this thread.

Hope you get it sorted,
Mike

[verb]

Having looked at a few pics of the Glockenklang preamp, I think they use an MEC stacked pot on their EQ board and that all the electrics in your bass are Glockenklang.
The original balance pot is 220K, so it might be worth checking the value on the blend pot.

Warwick diagram for your bass, not relevant with the current electrics but useful reference.
http://www.warwick.de/warwick/data/Warwick.de/Technical%20PDF/Scematic/PS-AS/AS_Bruce_60013.pdf

http://www.glockenklang.de/en/products/products_bass.htm

Edited November 30, 2015 by verb

[gsgbass]

The original song, "Strange Brew", was played with a Fender VI Bass.

[72deluxe]

Thanks verb, I got in touch with Warwick who pointed me in the direction of buying new internals (not really what I wanted), but an email to Glockenlang confirmed that the internals are entirely Glock (they said they use MEC parts), so you were right.

Meddle, the pickups are quiet to my ears. I adjusted the action on it yesterday and it plays much better so I will do a better demo at some point. I did a quick clacky clacky slappy slappy demo for the original post but it was littered with slapping, having recently seen a medley of Mark King licks....

gsgbass - was it really? I didn't know that. I knew JB used massive Marshalls when touring (so how he got the bottom end out of them, I don't know).
But for recording, I don't really know what they used. I can hear some warble on his playing in Strange Brew, like a vibrato? Do you know if he used the same gear for "Badge"?

[goingdownslow]

[quote]"Do you know if he used the same gear for "Badge"?[/quote]
Was is not Felix Pappalardi who played bass on Badge.

[72deluxe]

According to the Wikipedia page, Pappalardi played bass on "What a Bringdown". It does not mention him playing bass on Badge. Glad I asked though! Much more reading to be done by me!

[gs_triumph]

I am thinking of buying a Jack Bruce Artist so this thread is very interesting to me right now.
Sounds like you are having a bit of a nightmare. Hope you get it sorted soon enough.
Any idea why the original preamp was replaced?
How quiet is the bass? Both passive and active?
My amp isn't the loudest so a quiet bass might not be the best for me.

... But it looks sweet as fook so I might just take a punt

Edited December 1, 2015 by gs_triumph

[verb]

I have read that Warwick do not recommend a small string to pickup clearance with their $$ pickups, due to the strong magnetic force
dampening string movement, I wonder if this is the case with your bass, might be worth dropping the pickups to check.
I have a passive Fortress One 4 string and the output on that was very poor, a common issue with that model, I fitted EMGs and an OBP3.

[gs_triumph]

[quote name='72deluxe' timestamp='1448964485' post='2919563']
Thanks verb, I got in touch with Warwick who pointed me in the direction of buying new internals (not really what I wanted)
[/quote]

Theres a used warwick/mec preamp on ebay just now. might be worth a look.

[72deluxe]

Thanks for the info about the preamp on ebay. Sadly the preamp there is optimal for active pickups. The pickups on the JB are passive according to the schematic. I have got in touch with Glockenlang about it and they have been very helpful so far, so I will see how it turns out.

gs_triumph, I suspect that originally the output was great. I have a Star Bass II which is entirely passive (with the same passive pickups I believe) and the output on that is much louder, hence why I was shocked by the minute output of this! I have no idea why they replaced the original preamp. I have MEC preamps in other Warwick basses and I have never had any trouble with them.
If your amp isn't the loudest, it isn't a problem. As long as your amp has a gain control in the preamp section that goes to +11, it'll be no problem........

[gs_triumph]

Cheers 72deluxe,

I really fancy one of these basses. Looks immense and the various YouTube videos make em sound nice - tho they are nearly all produced by Warwick or other endorsees so a pinch of salt might be necessary

Struggling to decide between this or some kind of P/J set up on either a Jazz or a P. I can go the local guitar shop and try some fenders etc. I have no way of trying this bass.

Edited December 4, 2015 by gs_triumph

[Dusty]

I've got one of these, so great reading... Thanks

[72deluxe]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif]Glockenlang have identified the preamp as theirs. They use MEC pots on their boards. But they cannot work out why the output volume is so low.

It does not help that Warwick's website is so poor for information. The schematic for the preamp on this bass is found under Warwick Custom / Signature Jack Bruce Survivor / Jack Bruce Signature, along with the schematic for the real German Jack Bruce. Such a mess! This bass is NOT a Warwick Custom model at all, yet the schematic is found there. One uses active pickups (the German one) and this uses passive pickups.

But, the replacement pickups for this bass are listed on MEC's site under Star Bass II, as they are the same pickups. Such a confusing mess.

It doesn't help that MEC do not produce ANY specifications of their pickups or preamps, unlike EMG, Bartolini, Glockenlang etc. who all have helpful PDFs detailing how to fit items. EMG In particular have incredibly verbose specifications. I am chasing Warwick/MEC for details on these pickups.

I adjusted the action and neck the other day and it plays much better. Compared to a Fender, I used to have a Fender Jazz and really liked it, although I prefer the fret radius on Warwicks, as it is flatter (I think they use a 20" fret radius compared to Fender's 9.5"). This is heavier than the Fender I had (a Fender Aerodyne, 2004 Japanese). The neck feels thicker than a Fender, from memory. But not too thick for me at all. One thing you can be sure of is that you won't see many of these compared to the sea of Fenders. Not sure if that's a bonus or drawback.

I will try and do some form of demo at some point if you're interested gs_triumph? What styles/techniques do you play in? And where are you?[/font]

Edited December 7, 2015 by 72deluxe

[gs_triumph]

at least you are making some progress.

Posting a demo would be great - I'm always a little sceptical when videos available in the usual sources are all produced by endorsees. Not that i think a bass in this price range is going to feel bad in my clumsy hands. I'm expecting it'll feel great just because I've never played anything in this kind of price range.

I'm pretty much straight forward blues/classic rock... and badly at that. I should maybe take up punk.

I'm near edinburgh.

Edited December 7, 2015 by gs_triumph

[verb]

You can find your bass on the Warwick site under Pro Series discontinued models, along with the schematic I linked previously.If all the electrics, apart from the pickups, are Glockenklang, then the Warwick wiring isn't relevant to your bass.
Warwick usually wire their basses so that the signal comes from the pickups, through the balance pot, onto the PCB on the vol pot, here it is switched either to go through the vol pot to the jack socket(passive mode or more correctly EQ bypass mode) or to the active EQ then back to the vol pot then onto the jack socket.