Naetharu Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Hi folks, I'm having a bit of an issue when it comes to playing a two or three string stretch with any kind of speed and accuracy. It came to my attention after trying to learn Master Blaster which as many of you no doubt know, is just full of octave patterns. I am finding it pretty tricky to get the high notes to sound clean and clear. I'm not 100% sure what my problem is here, however it is worth saying that it is not down to speed. I find it as difficult to do it at slow speed as I do when playing faster. Any time that I am moving from the E or A string up to a string that is two or three higher (i.e. E -> D or G or A -> G) it feels like a bit of a stumble. At the moment I am playing with my thumb resting atop the pick-ups or occasionally on the edge of the bridge or neck if I am after an especially bright/soft tone. Has anyone else had issues with this? Could it be a case of needing to re-learn where to place my thumb (I am assuming that it is the stretch that is difficult) or could there be something else I am doing wrong/could work on to make these parts of my playing sound better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luulox Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Which hand? Fretting or picking hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 From the description it sounds as if you are not using your thumb to pluck the lower octave note. Is that correct? If so, how about trying that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 I always place my thumb on pu or the string above the one I'm playing for octaves if there slow I can do this fine if fast I raise my hand (floating) and use my index and middle finger. Maybe practice by holding the note and its octave. And using your first and second finger or as suggested the thumb and first. Also practice just playing octaves in a box pattern I think it's called shifting up and down the neck etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naetharu Posted November 27, 2015 Author Share Posted November 27, 2015 [quote name='Luulox' timestamp='1448659106' post='2917310'] Which hand? Fretting or picking hand? [/quote] Picking hand and aye I am not using my thumb. I could certainly give that a go - right now I am using a simple alternating picking with my index and middle finger. Cheers folks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameltoe Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Do use a floating thumb technique or do you keep your thumb anchored on the pickup? Either way you do it, it just sounds like it could just be a practice issue. I prefer floating thumb, however it does take a while to get accurate with this. If I'm only hitting one octave note before heading back then I usually keep my thumb anchored. If you find it hard slowed down then perhaps this is the issue- start slow, get it right, then speed it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naetharu Posted November 28, 2015 Author Share Posted November 28, 2015 [quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1448697169' post='2917441'] Do use a floating thumb technique or do you keep your thumb anchored on the pickup? Either way you do it, it just sounds like it could just be a practice issue. I prefer floating thumb, however it does take a while to get accurate with this. If I'm only hitting one octave note before heading back then I usually keep my thumb anchored. If you find it hard slowed down then perhaps this is the issue- start slow, get it right, then speed it up. [/quote] Right now I am always anchored but I'm certainly open to trying something different. I'll look up floating thumb technique later today and have a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 give the thumb technique a go at first and eventually you will pick up speed although its as much an agility issue as it is speed imho - used to struggle like anything a few years ago with all that donna summer octave stuff and initially used to do it with the thumb and 1st finger method but gradually you pick up speed and get on top of it - although i must admit it does seem to be one of the areas where it does take a considerable amount of time and repetition to achieve the final result Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naetharu Posted November 28, 2015 Author Share Posted November 28, 2015 [quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1448701633' post='2917466'] give the thumb technique a go at first and eventually you will pick up speed although its as much an agility issue as it is speed imho - used to struggle like anything a few years ago with all that donna summer octave stuff and initially used to do it with the thumb and 1st finger method but gradually you pick up speed and get on top of it - although i must admit it does seem to be one of the areas where it does take a considerable amount of time and repetition to achieve the final result [/quote] Cheers! If nothing else it's good to know that it is not just me that finds it tricky. It seems simple when I stop and look at it, yet getting the notes to all sound clean, clear and in perfect time is hard work. Well, looks like I know what I am going to be practicing this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) Core skill is fast otcoves with two fingers. Listen to Chic and Edwards for a master class..and do that for a few montts. You'll never have problems again . Rest thumb on the neck pick-up ...if you have a Jazz... and move it to the rear when you get it down. The thumb on the pickup is a launch you'll need when trying to crack this ..to kind of throw your RH plucking fingers 'up' the strings...which is actually a down motion with the wrist. Once you can do quavers/8's..then incoroprate a triplet... with 1 root and 2 octave..and then reverse it, 2 root and 1 octave. Classic finger style. You can pinch it with a thumb on the bottom and one or two fingers on the octave, but I'd only do this for a different sound.. it wont 'cop' the classic style, IMO. Cool to do both...but string skipping is a fundemental skill to be nailed, IMO. Edited November 28, 2015 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1448703939' post='2917491'] Cheers! If nothing else it's good to know that it is not just me that finds it tricky. It seems simple when I stop and look at it, yet getting the notes to all sound clean, clear and in perfect time is hard work. Well, looks like I know what I am going to be practicing this morning. [/quote] dont fret too much about 'clean' at first it might sound clanky while youre practising but youd be surprised how many isolated bass track of 'name players' also sound clanky when put in a harsh spotlight but as JT says above you will deffo get a different feel between the thumb/1st and 1st/2nd finger technique - if you can get the right groove and feel with the 1/2 technique then imho this would be preferrable over the thumb/1st technique even at the cost of a bit of rattling and clanking - after all who else at a gig is going to spot it other than a bunch of nitpicking bass players ed - and if youre in the sort of band who's gig success relies on getting people on their feet and shaking their groove thang then def go for the 1st/2nd string skipping technique Edited November 28, 2015 by steve-bbb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luulox Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I think 'my sharona' may be a good song for practising octaves. I seem to remember lots of octaves in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Scott Devine does a great lesson on the floating thumb/muting technique. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDSAd29kJ0o&index=15&list=PL89184C61EF212C3B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Don't get hung up on floating thumb. Learn one thing at a time. Just practice every song you can find with octave jumps. That'll be a lot of Disco, I'm afraid, but you need to accurately jump up to the octave in many genres. You can use the index finger for the lower note and the middle finger for the higher note. Rock your hand (and wrist) to help reach the notes. I find a fixed thumb helps doing this. More numbers with octaves and 2 string jumps; Car Wash by Rose Royce and Don't Leave Me This Way by Thelma Houston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Use a plectrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameltoe Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1448706908' post='2917513'] Don't get hung up on floating thumb. Learn one thing at a time. Just practice every song you can find with octave jumps. [/quote] If I hadn't have moved to floating thumb i'd still be struggling with the anchor-and-stretch. I couldn't get that to work with me, it felt horrible. It's another thing to learn, sure, but it may be a technique that the OP is more comfortable with. To the OP I think everyone agrees that practice is key. Practice slowly on a technique which feels right to you and speed it up. Use a metronome. It's not easy, as there is more muscle memory involved in those pesky string jumps. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICbass Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I found, when struggling to get evenness between high/ low octave, that reducing the amount of plucking force on the lower octave helped. The lower octave is, by nature, louder and trying to match this with the higher octave lead to problems with timing and cramping in the plucking hand. The relative volume made a difference and reducing pressure low down proved easier than adding volume/pressure high up. Try it and see? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I take all my advice from this guy http://youtu.be/NwVNuyfhF0Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 [quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1448715029' post='2917596'] If I hadn't have moved to floating thumb i'd still be struggling with the anchor-and-stretch. [/quote] What ever works for you. That might work for the OP but I'm just saying, trying to learn 2 things at the same time makes both more difficult. My Luddite view is that everyone who has recorded octave type bass lines in the last 60 years has not used floating thumb, so that technique is not a pre requisite for playing octaves. Here is Roscoe Beck with an octave bass line that will stretch most players, and he's using the standard moving-fixed-thumb style. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSU5NoqnK1E"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSU5NoqnK1E[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 And here's Scott Thunes playing 'disco' octaves with a plectrum.. [media]http://youtu.be/0Cif5i1rlzw[/media] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 [quote name='No lust in Jazz' timestamp='1448722692' post='2917665'] And here's Scott Thunes playing 'disco' octaves with a plectrum.. [media]http://youtu.be/0Cif5i1rlzw[/media] [/quote]Is it colaiuta on the drums? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 [quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1448733736' post='2917766'] Is it colaiuta on the drums? [/quote] It's Chad Wackerman... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingsta Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Yeah, have a look at floating thumb. Its a good technique to have and you can pick it up quite quickly with a bit of practice. Its becomes more important if you move to 5 strings or are moving across the strings a lot and want to keep things clean. Less strain on the hands as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) I used to struggle with octaves, but I changed my technique to floating thumb a couple of years ago and noticed a massive improvement. EDIT: On reflection, I think this is because my picking fingers both stay in position above the target strings, instead of having to stretch over to the higher-pitched string. Edited November 28, 2015 by JapanAxe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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