ivansc Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Cheddatom: Nail on the head. I am in my seventies and still gig, although these days it is about 50/50 bass in a band and working on my own or with a pickup rhythm sections singing and guitaring. Live gigs are getting like jazz gigs became in the early sixties. Poorly attended by the faithful few - most of whom are over that Certain Age. I quit playing full time pro in 2006 & by then the audiences in my particular niche style were either no longer able to get out at night or were already dead. Chastening thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I don't operate in the same sector as you, Blue. We create the songs that, if we're very lucky, cover bands will play in years to come. Why do we do it? God only knows. It certainly isn't for the money We play whenever some venue thinks they're doing us a favour by getting us to play for 45-60 mins then paying the five of us £0-50 for the trouble. We just pool it all and when we've got enough we hit the recording studio/get CDs made up/get merch made up and do it all again. It is not a "boys night out", it's a penny scramble to scrape the money together to progress, to make our music and evolve it to a finalised state. Sure it's also about entertaining and making people dance - we love playing live and seeing people having a good time. But we've got our own thing to say and we do it when we can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I've seen ads like the one Blue refers to, only it takes it further by adding a drinking element to the deal - something along the lines of "rehearse once a week, have a laugh and a few beers". Great having a laugh with your bandmates (which I certainly do) but to me this type of ad does make it very much part of a Boys Nigh Out culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Hasn't there always been an element of 'boys night out' with bands? My first couple of bands were definitely like that, a group of mates playing music together, partially because we enjoyed making music but also because we enjoyed socialising together. Trying to impress girls (with the emphasis on 'trying') was a pretty big motivator as well. I probably wouldn't want to join a band that mentioned beers and chuckles in the ad these days but then I'm no longer a drinker, as long as the band isn't awful I don't think there's any harm in taking that approach. It's probably more healthy than the guys who get stressed because they take it far too seriously. Edited December 1, 2015 by Cato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lw. Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Good Points @Cheddartom. Despite sharing a language & huge amounts of cultural history in many ways the US & the UK are incredibly different places to live, work & play music. There's a reason "breaking America" is the holy grail for many musicians, the population numbers means there is almost unlimited demand. It's just not like that in the UK; towns/cities in the UK only have so many people willing to go out & spend money on a given genre of music - I know if more than one heavy band comes through my town in a week, one of the nights will suffer because people can only afford to go to one of them. Same goes for bands that generally have a bit of a following - you can only ask them to come out & spend money on you so many times in a month before you start to question whether you're worth all their money! I think calling bands that don't gig every week not real bands is a bit snooty to be honest - like saying covers bands aren't real bands because it's just kareoke with guitars. We all know this isn't the case; groups of musicians that play music together are bands regardless of frequency, earnings or who wrote the songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr zed Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 [font="Calibri"][size="3"][color="#000000"]I left a very good band earlier this year. The other members wanted to be out gigging at least once a week – I didn’t. A couple of times per month is about right for me. I have a family who I really enjoy spending time with, a demanding job (which I’m also fortunate enough to enjoy) and I enjoy taking part in other activities in my social time (motorcycling, camping weekends, cinema, going to gigs, theatre, holidays etc.). Sometimes, I just want to relax with a glass of wine and my feet up at the end of a week. TBH, with all of this going on, I don’t have time to gig more often.[/color][/size][/font] [font="Calibri"][size="3"][color="#000000"]I have found another band who also have other things going on in their life and gigging a couple of times per month is also what they want to do.[/color][/size][/font] [font="Calibri"][size="3"][color="#000000"]I have to say that gigging is the most enjoyable aspect of my social activities. When we play, it is to entertain both ourselves and hopefully the audience. We take it seriously and try to be the best we can be. The band rehearse once a week, we are constantly learning new material to keep the set fresh and when we’re together, we all get on. I wouldn’t choose to spend time with them outside of the band – we have a common interest and that’s where it ends.[/color][/size][/font] [font="Calibri"][size="3"][color="#000000"]I feel that my life is in balance and that suits me just fine. Other guys want to gig more often and that’s great, it suits them. So long as you’re true to yourself in what you want to do, I don’t see a problem. I certainly wouldn’t judge others and I wouldn’t expect to be judged myself for what work for us all individually.[/color][/size][/font] [font="Calibri"][size="3"][color="#000000"]Oh, and the gigging scene in the North West of England is alive & kicking. We have some great venues and some great bands. We also have people who are prepared to come out and listen.[/color][/size][/font] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1448918435' post='2919246'] Trolling? No, not at all. Only in the sense that I wrote the post with the intent on generating responses. Blue [/quote] I agree, there is a growing diversity in approaches that I've seen even within the cluster bands I've worked with, and it's not even necessarily a question of snobbery. It's very easy to fall into the instinctive response that "well, if we don't rehearse every week then we're not really a band," but if you think about it, does it always make sense to maintain such a regime? For example, when you first put the band together, you've got a lot of work to do - original or covers, you want to make sure that your live set is as tight as a gnat's chuff. Then the gigs come in, so you want to polish the set for those - and, hopefully, work retrospectively on the bits that do and don't work. Maybe you want to start recording, so you make sure the arrangements are absolutely spot on in the cheaper environment of a rehearsal space. But then the two species of band probably diverge a bit. Covers bands are more likely to be playing over christmas, for instance, so it makes sense to keep that engine well-oiled. But originals? It's tacitly accepted that most small groups won't have a big draw for christmas or January gigs, so it's just sensible to take a bit of a break and save some money - even if just from a business perspective, as you could well make a loss playing to an empty room. Taking the latter approach to more extreme levels, I know some bands who will seemingly drop off the radar for three months at a time while they work on a single gig to make sure they get word out in the local area and can be confident of filling the venue. It's less fun musically but might well make sense from a business perspective. Even as recently as the beginning of this year, I thought their approach was a bit much, but after a couple of "three men and a dog" gigs in October, I'm starting to sympathise with their point of view! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colgraff Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I'm not sure if it is a new niche but having a hobby that pays for itself is very welcome and coming back with a few spare pounds after a gig softens any domestic criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martthebass Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 [quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1448920899' post='2919283'] I think Blue has mentioned before that he plays bass for a living. I dont think there was any malice intended in his question. Anyhow, I am quite happy to gig once a month. That is enough for me. Music is a hobby, I have a good job and lovely wife and home, and sometimes I prefer to stay in and enjoy them. [/quote] This is an important factor, if I didn't have a day job then I'd be happy to gig 3-4 times week so long as it brought in sufficient cash. As it is, with work commitments (and an aging body) I limit gigging days to Fridays/Saturdays but don't care if they pay well or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I'm sure there are plenty of professional bands that don't, on average, play as much as once a week over the course of a year even when they have something to promote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Just read the OP, and will catch up with the rest of the comments but there aren't enough good gigs about to do 2 or more a week. I've recently put an 'all stars' type unit and I can't flog them for those sort of gigs. They'll work for $120 per man in a bar but they also MD acts into the U.K. so I wouldn't take the mick.. I book them on down nights or have to pay a much higher going rate. If a prestigious gig comes in..I know my gig is history. So, in one sense... it is a boys night out, but we aren't mates... but we are musical network buddies and we know how the game works. The gig that gets them is in for a rare treat.,...but whether that is tangible as far as the LL or audience goes.. we'll see as we go on. Come the summer, I expect to have some really good gigs for them..as far as I'm concerned... but I also know they can pull more career interesting gigs out of the bag and I'll have to let them go. That is the deal... Edited December 1, 2015 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckinthepod Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 As a relative newcomer to the NW covers scene (18months) it's pretty hard to get enough gigs to hit our 2 gigs per month target. The rock covers market in Greater Manchester is pretty saturated and pubs tend rebook the known names making it harder to get a look in at the decent venues (IE music pubs as opposed to pubs who put on music alongside other entertainments). We have three venues where we have built a reputation over the last 18 months and we can confidently get 3 or four gigs a year meaning we are still hunting for another 12 or so. We are starting to get more bookings for 2016 but its pretty slow going. We generally rehearse once a week and that is three hours of solid work with a little friendly chit chat but a definite work ethic. What we get paid doesn't cover the costs involved so it's definitely a labour of love. For the time and effort that goes in I'd appreciate a few more shows to showcase the fruits of those labours. That said I'm only interested in playing the venues where were are the main attraction, rather than a distraction for the punters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colgraff Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I consider myself to be extremely lucky to have found a band who play two gigs a month regularly within a relatively small radius. As most of us are parents and have other jobs, that is ample. We rehearse once every now and then if we have new material or if we need a tightening up session. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) I know of plenty of people who try and make a living from pubs... not sure how successful they are in terms of income generated but the bulk of their work is from the pubs. They may have a touring gig but doubt that generates much as they are sidemen and the main draw, probably takes/makes more. The guys with the best chance, mix it up a bit... MD'ing a few tours means they network very well, get called a lot but still have down dates. They may have a function gig which they dep a lot...but that is a good payer and back stops a lot of what they do. Pub band gigs is getting you £200-300 Tops per week, so I assume they cut their cloth to live on that... £20k p.a upwards is a tough old slog. Easy to get on target per week, but you have to be doing £400 per week with no down time in the year.. No, I don't think Blue is trolling. My gigs are more jobs for the boys rather than boys night out. Edited December 1, 2015 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 [quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1448973220' post='2919664'] ...having a hobby that pays for itself is very welcome and coming back with a few spare pounds after a gig softens any domestic criticism. [/quote] Oh, that's great. I'm going to write a self-help book called 'Softening Domestic Criticism'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heket Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 People always say how getting out and playing with others is the one thing you should do, and these "boys night out" outfits are doing exactly that, whilst still making time for family and other interests (yes, other interests are a thing ). Does the "you must play with others" ideal extend always to "you must gig with others", I wonder? As with just about any other activity there will always be hobbyists and workers. Both are getting creative and expressive input, it's just that one makes a living out of it. Honest question, if rock is on the decline, what do you feel is on the upswing? What's "new"? Pop or indie stuff? Electro genres? Any music that gets people dancing is good surely, so what about disco and funk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 [quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1448919062' post='2919257'] Well I'd say this - instead of knocking those practicing once a week and gigging once a month, how about doffing your cap to them - they're still rocking it when many have given up, they find time in their lives which might be busy with familiy and jobs and who-knows-what to strap on guitars, make some noise and have some fun. This forum is replete with them, I'd imagine. They're still at it and that should be celebrated, not derided for not being in some way 'the real deal'. [/quote] I'm in two rock covers bands. I generally refer to them as mu "mid-life crisis" bands, I'm 44. so it fits and generally gets a laugh. I picked my bass back up after a 17 year hiatus get to play songs I love: one band is blues & classic rock, the other is classic rock, punk and metal. Like the rest of the guys I make my living in my day job. Like the rest of the guys I live for the playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I am a happy hobbyist and boys night outist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) [quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1448957892' post='2919479'] Yeh i think it's just that some people have other jobs which prevents them from gigging three times a week. I would love it if i could make music my full time living, and have enough to fund my family. As it stands, i cant, so i dont. Once a week is about what we aim for. Keeps it fresh and enjoyable for us then. I totally get what you're saying though Blue. It's your main source of income (from what i gather), so you need it to be regular [/quote] It's tough but I have been on both sides of the fence, the 9-5 corporate side and now the ful time rock musician. At 62 I'm finally at piece and I'm really enjoying life now. Finally doing something that I know how to do. You have to constantly work at having money coming in. Now keep in mind I'm single with adult children out on their own. Blue Edited December 2, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 [quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1448956107' post='2919463'] I'm sure we've done this thread before. Some people like doing lots of gigs - others don't... ... life goes on. [/quote] Agreed, we all come into music differently and want different things. I came into this at the age of 12. It's all I've really ever thought about and put a lot of effort into it. It's never been a fun and games" let's rock " thing for me. It's one of the few things in life that makes sense to me. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 [quote name='martthebass' timestamp='1448973585' post='2919669'] This is an important factor, if I didn't have a day job then I'd be happy to gig 3-4 times week so long as it brought in sufficient cash. As it is, with work commitments (and an aging body) I limit gigging days to Fridays/Saturdays but don't care if they pay well or not. [/quote] And that's fine,most guys I know that work a straight gig don't care about the money. It's just not an issue for them. It's not why they do it. However, while they say they don't care about the money, I've yet to see one of them turn the money down. Another point, and I'm sure most of you will agree. it depends on the type of gigs your doing. I don't think anyone that is playing club and bar gigs for 4 hours, hauling and setting up lights and full PA is or willing to do that without caring about the money. Why would anyone take time away from their family to do all that for free.? Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 [quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1448958040' post='2919482'] You can see why you were misunderstood, I think describing another's band as "boy's night out" sounds dismissive even if it isn't meant to be. It may be something lost in translation, in the UK almost all our most cutting insults are understatements and it was you who introduced the term. To my British eyes it did look like you were looking down on people who gig less than you.[/quote] It was not meant to be insulting or looking down at people that enjoy a "Boy's Night Out". It's merely what some people want to do. Just because it's not how I chose to use my skill and training does not mean i have or take issue with it. That would be silly. For me, It took years to acquire these skills and understanding how to be in a band. I have a skill and a product and I'm damn sure going to get paid for providing and delivering it just like any other product or service. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1448960602' post='2919503'] I like to hang out with my bands but I don't think I've ever seen them outside of a gig/rehearsal/studio time [/quote] I think it depends on the band, a guys personality and where he's at in life. Me, I did the band hang thing when I was a young guy, It was fun , it was great. But it's nothing I want to do at age 62. Blue Edited December 2, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 [quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1448963370' post='2919546'] Cheddatom: Nail on the head. I am in my seventies and still gig, although these days it is about 50/50 bass in a band and working on my own or with a pickup rhythm sections singing and guitaring. Live gigs are getting like jazz gigs became in the early sixties. Poorly attended by the faithful few - most of whom are over that Certain Age. I quit playing full time pro in 2006 & by then the audiences in my particular niche style were either no longer able to get out at night or were already dead. Chastening thought. [/quote] Agreed, festivals and fairs can still be very cool however bars and clubs are a different story. We play a few venues when those grey haired loyal rock lovers still come out. We love them, they love talking about the old days trading concert stories. They love that we are still presenting that 70s style harder rock and blues. By the way, I was talking to Vance Brescia, Peter Noones & Herman's Hermits Guitarist and Musical Director. He told me the Happy Together Tour is making money hand over fists. So Pete is right, there are still some niches for 60s and 70s rock music. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 [quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1448967556' post='2919598'] I've seen ads like the one Blue refers to, only it takes it further by adding a drinking element to the deal - something along the lines of "rehearse once a week, have a laugh and a few beers". Great having a laugh with your bandmates (which I certainly do) but to me this type of ad does make it very much part of a Boys Nigh Out culture. [/quote] Exactly, guys not taking themselves that seriously and want to have some fun. I think we are going to see more and more of this type ad and culture. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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