Operation PA Upgrade!

[redbandit599]

Hi all

I've had some great advice on here concerning active PA cabs recently ( we've grabbed a second hand pair of RCF 325's which hopefully will be with us soon.)

Now, other bits :-

Monitors - yes, it'd be nice to have lovely ones of these too - but for now we're going budget. My question is given a choice between 10" and 12" floor wedges is there much 'real' difference. Smaller size makes me favour 10's - any thought's? We are going cheap remember!


Mixers - will throw a bit more cash at this. Do like the look of those WiFi jobs Soundcraft Ui16 and Behringer X Air, but we are coming from a very basic Peavey power mixer amp - so be interested to know what you guys think about the new WiFi jobs compared to a more 'normal' desk. We are a 5 piece playing pubs and as you'll know it's often a squeeze, so size makes me favour the WiFi jobs along with the obvious mixing 'out front.'

Cheers all

Jason

Edited December 2, 2015 by redbandit599

[chevy-stu]

From my experience, which will be obviously different to others, it's hard to mix on an iPad and play at the same time, so while the Ui16 and Air are great pieces of kit, done gigs with both, I feel they need to be operated by a non-player at gigs to do a proper mix.. If the band rarely needs mixing and levels stay 99% fixed once set you could be OK.


Monitors, assuming you'll just be getting a couple to put on the floor at the front, then it's whatever you can afford, some 10"s are great, I use a pair of Pulse 10's that are fine for our needs of just vocals for BV's. The Behringer B212 powered one's are also good for the money, loud and pretty clear...

Edited December 2, 2015 by chevy-stu

[Roger2611]

I would go for 12's on the monitors, a bit bigger but you will get a better sound and I imagine with a 5 piece band small monitors will struggle....but my strongest advice would be buy the best you can, be it either 10's or 12's the better you get the happier you will be....buy second hand if you can....a second hand Proel 12" monitor will cost you about the same as a new "The Box" 12" monitor......the Proel is 100 times better.

Mixer wise you are on your own...from what you mention you are talking technology far newer than my Peavey XR800 powered desk!

[Happy Jack]

What will you be using the monitors for?

Just vocals, or will you put a mix through there?

If just vocals, how many in the band sing?

If a mix, will different people want different mixes?

[leftybassman392]

For the type of gigs you're playing you won't need too much monitoring. Bass & drums will mostly take care of themselves. You really only need to hear the vocals properly; everything else is essentially optional. Simple, set & forget mixing will be plenty good enough - people spend silly money of this kind of kit when the gigs they're doing really don't need it. Plenty of good mixers around at very reasonable prices (both new & used - Behringer would be a good place to start) - without knowing your stage geography it's hard to be sure, but I can't think you'll need more than 8 or 10 main channels plus a couple of auxes for the monitoring (subgroups are a bit of a luxury at this level IMHO). As long as the mixer does the job you want it to, it really doesn't matter about the specifics of the technology. Just a thought though - WiFi is something else to go wrong. If you're confident that it'll work everywhere you go then use it; if you're not then don't. As for the monitors themselves, bigger chassis units will generally give you more depth but if you're only really monitoring the vocals how much do you need, really? Also less going through the monitors makes for a less confused sound, especially with less expensive kit. Precise layout depends on your stage setup, but for simplicity you might want to start with a couple across the stage front, one for the drummer and one for wherever; I assume it's still possible to daisychain them, so only the first one needs to be powered in each chain (helps keep costs down and wiring solutions simpler).

ETA: Do you really need someone out front for pub gigs? Sweaty rooms? Trailing wires for people to trip over? Alcoholic beverages and tipsy punters in close proximity to electricity...?

Edited December 2, 2015 by leftybassman392

[bonzodog]

We only put 2 vocals through our active speakers.
We use a yamaha mg10xu mixer which is great for the cash and has built in fx and compressor
Monitor wise we use 2 old active peavey eurosys 1s. Very loud and go very cheap on ebay. Think we paid £20 each for them but had to repaint the grilles and clean up the carpet covered cabs

[mrtcat]

[quote name='redbandit599' timestamp='1449078395' post='2920630']
we've grabbed a second hand pair of RCF 325's
[/quote]

Really really good choice. They'll sound lovely and do the job for years.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1449079976' post='2920644']
What will you be using the monitors for?

Just vocals, or will you put a mix through there?

If just vocals, how many in the band sing?

If a mix, will different people want different mixes?
[/quote]

If vox only, I'd consider the Mackie mini monitors...very directional
if you can position them well enough.

The Wharfedale 12/15"'s...aren't all that, tbh.

My vote would be for a pr of RCF 310's depending on who sings and needs a monitor.

[redbandit599]

Cheers all

We'd like to put mostly vox in - of the 5 of us, three of us sing (one of the guitarists, drummer and singer), and I occassionally make some 'almost singing' noises.. I do quite a bit of the 'banter' though.

We'd like to get a bit of guitars in the monitors too - especially as the guys often play in harmony, so would be for helpful them to have a good reference for each other. Although they are both clear out front, it's less clear back with with me and the drummer in between and one of our guitarists is actually quite deaf. We want to put more through the PA cabs to reduce backline a bit, so this seems a logical approach (at the moment anyway!)

The drummer and other guitarist could probably do with different mixes, with their vox a bit higher.

[quote][/quote]
[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1449081320' post='2920657']

ETA: Do you really need someone out front for pub gigs? Sweaty rooms? Trailing wires for people to trip over? Alcoholic beverages and tipsy punters in close proximity to electricity...?
[/quote]

No we don't have anyone mixing us - I worded this poorly, I just meant from an initial set up perspective. Currently it's a case of one of us stood out front and employing sign language to another one twiddling knobs on the mixer amp. Not great, while trying to all play and get a balance. So the Wi Fi bit for me was more about just one of us being able to mix it on a tablet on a bar stool or something and then 'set and forget' for the night.

Cheers all.

[Owen]

I have three older Mackie SRM350 cabs. 10" speaker and PLENTY of welly, especially it you can take out anything beneath 80Hz. Which takes us on to the mixer. A digital mixer will offer you SO much more than an analogue by now. With a digital one you whack everything beneath 80hz off all your monitor feeds to keep everything nice and clean. You are likely to have 6 aux sends on one so that you could give everyone in the band a seperate monitor mix. You could use in-ear through a Samson headphone amp, some extension leads and perhaps some Sure SE215 headphones. MUCH lighter than wedges. The Mackie DL1608 seems to be going for less than £400 on ebay by now - you would need to add an iPad and a wireless router. If anyone has an iphone they can control their own monitor mix.

[cameltoe]

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1449088222' post='2920736']
I have three older Mackie SRM350 cabs. 10" speaker and PLENTY of welly
[/quote]

+1 on these. If you wanted something a bit cheaper the Mackie TH12a's are a good choice for floor monitoring. Versatile EQ so you can set the frequencies and they can be used FOH if your tops go kaput mid-gig.