gelfin Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Well if all the bands are stumping up for hall hire etc and expect the same sort of loss. Then how about doing a bucket collection near the end of the night and split it three ways. If the audience come in for free and enjoy the night they way very well be happy to chip something in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 It sounds like there is a bit of uncertainty as to the £40 loss... Is it definitely £40 or possibly £40 but worst case scenario loads more? I'd get that figure confirmed before signing up to anything. What if the promised 200 don't show up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Charge £3 on the door. It's nothing. People will think they're getting a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILL POSTERS Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 [quote name='taunton-hobbit' timestamp='1449339104' post='2922765'] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]''another local band hosting and someone has to pay''[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]'I've got this great idea fellas - lets run a gig & stitch the support act for the ex's'[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I may be being a trifle harsh, but probably not..............[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color] [/quote] Its £40. Exes would be more than that just to turn up, let alone promote it. Either the numbers are wrong or its not such a bad idea. I think probably the numbers are wrong, and if its not promoted effectively you could end up with an empty room. Not good for morale if you just started gigging, not good for the pocket if you have to shell out more than you expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 [quote name='BILL POSTERS' timestamp='1449363737' post='2922993'] Its £40. Exes would be more than that just to turn up, let alone promote it. Either the numbers are wrong or its not such a bad idea. I think probably the numbers are wrong, and if its not promoted effectively you could end up with an empty room. Not good for morale if you just started gigging, not good for the pocket if you have to shell out more than you expected. [/quote] And for those of us that have been around a while know that is usually what happens. Bue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) [quote name='blue' timestamp='1449365080' post='2922999'] And for [s]those[/s] [i]some [/i]of us that have been around a while know that is [s]usually[/s] [i]sometimes [/i]what happens. Bue [/quote] Fixed. (You've been told a million times before to stop exaggerating..! ) Edited December 6, 2015 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1449365352' post='2923001'] Fixed. (You've been told a million times before to stop exaggerating..! ) [/quote] Ok, I can live with the correction. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1449365577' post='2923003'] Ok, I can live with the correction. Blue [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 What this forum needs is a Band Matters section.....rig, finances, pa etc etc..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 How much are the headliners putting in, is it all the bands contributing the same amount? If so, then up to you guys, I`ve done the same with a mates band and we cleaned up on the door, but we had the advantage of knowing we would get a good turnout. £40 isn`t a lot, but if it`s in a town where you don`t know anyone, then you`re reliant on taking your (relatively new) audience along, and hoping the other band can do the same. Ordinarily I wouldn`t want to do that, but in this case spending £40 to play on a proper stage with proper PA, proper monitors etc (assuming all that is there), well there`s only so much you can learn in a rehearsal studio, this is essentially a stage rehearsal if no-one turns up. Getting used to playing is invaluable, I`d take the opportunity as you`re newly starting out, you can only benefit from it performance wise with the experience you`ll gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_derby Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 There are lots of wise comments and bits of advice on this thread. Good 'ol Basschat. However, one of the standout facts for me is that this is a band playing original material. Having done both routes, cover bands and (currently) originals I've found them very different in terms of getting gigs. If the OP was in a covers band personally I'd be very wary of this scenario. My experience of an originals band is that gigs are harder to get, so you have to take them where you can and take more financial risks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 so many parameters but then as you say if you are playing orifinal prog metal then many of the variables will undoubtedly be rather constrained to reiterate an earlier comment if you can affort it and think its worth it go for it - just think of it finacnially as another night out and put the expense issue to one side and go out and enjoy yhe gig if the cost is going to be constantly gnawing away as your overriding concern then id personally suggest kick it into touch hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-string-thing Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 £40 between you isn't a massive amount, treat it as a rehearsal (but better as there will probably be a stage, bigger P.A, monitors etc) And look at it as a chance to play to a decent size crowd.... My band recently did a "charity" gig, to raise funds for the community centre that it was held in. The organiser wanted the bands in by 7pm, which meant I had to take the day off work because I couldn't guarantee I could be there early enough. I then had to sit around watching 3 other bands before our set and one band after, before we could load out.... So, a days pay lost, and about 4 drinks each for me and my girlfriend... I'd have been better off going to work, turning up without playing and chucking £50 in the collection bucket! Mind you, we did get the "exposure" of playing to the other bands and about 6 locals..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 there are so few venues now for original bands that this arrangement is a way of being able to gig with some like minded folks. Its a shame... Paying to play though is generally not a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) Putting on one's own concert (in concert with other bands...) is not the same as 'Pay to Play', I'd say. Self-promoting can be costly, or can be made to break even, or even make a modest profit on the direct costs involved. Anyone playing, currently, that hasn't factored in his / her investment in bass, amp, cab and all is, effectively, paying to play,unless they're in a tightly-run, financially successful group. There's not so many of those about as one would have us believe. Count up the [i]real [/i]cost of playing, and see how many dates, at what rate, you need to even come [i]close [/i]to making a profit, much less make a living. The case explained in the OP sounds quite reasonable for a set of bands wanting to get started. It would surprise me a lot if there was any decent amount of money involved to even make 'ripping off' worthwhile..! Edited December 6, 2015 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Sorry Dad - disagree - if you are forking out money to do a gig you are paying to play regardless of how you define "self-promotion" - it has nothing to do with buying your own instruments etc. The equation is simple: We are being paid to do a gig = not paying to play We have to front the money to play the gig = paying to play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Different folks - different strokes; no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Not everyone is motivated by earning money. I enjoy playing music with our band i find it motivates me and is therapeutic. It costs me money to go out and visit a theatre or a gig or even to rehearse. If a band play and gig for their own enjoyment too the 40 nicker or thereabouts for the band is good value for me. Some like their £££ / €€€ / $$$ Some aren't too fussed. Must be the Communist in me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivansc Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) Back in the days of pub rock in London there was a sort of league table. You started out as the only band in one of the really SMALL sh*t-holes & got paid a slice of the door assuming anyone showed. Once you had broken the fire limit (I kid you not!) a couple of times, you got invited to play opening act at the next level up of toilet venue, usually paid £10 which the main band`s sound guy promptly nabbed for "letting you use the PA and mixing you, innit" Eventually you would wind up doing the Nashville Rooms and Dingwalls , etc for decent money but nobody got any free rides unless they were already "famous". The system worked. Equally, out in the provinces self-promoted gigs with a nominal charge on the door were very often the only way a small local band could get an audience. Fast forward to NOW. A small local pub venue provides the room for £430 to £80 depending on how well you draw. They insist on you hiring THEIR sound guy for another £40 and a bouncer of their choosing for yet another £40. My daughter managed to break even after paying her bands a very nominal fee and nothing for herself. Landlord turned around and said because it had been such a good night she could have the room for £40 next time. Apparently the bar did very well but no suggestion of a slice for her or the bands. So this "opportunity" may be a better better than some of you think. Edited December 6, 2015 by ivansc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naetharu Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 Hi folks, Thank you to everyone for your input - its been really helpful when it comes to thinking things through. In the end we managed to call in a couple of favours and it looks as if we can put the whole thing on for free. We managed to get a sound-engineer who needs to do a live show for his degree course at the local music college and so offered to cover for free. He comes complete with a nice PA courtesy of his college too which is fantastic. We've also managed to negotiate a free venue connected to the same college - we keep the door money and they get the bar money which is fine with us. All in all, it looks as if we're going to be able to run the whole night at no cost to any of the bands. We want to encourage everyone possible to come and check us out so we're not charging a door fee which is fine - none of us expect to make money from the band right now anyhow. It's been a bit of a nightmare to organise but it looks to be a happy ending all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Did loads of self promo style ..as you do when you're young.... It is just a question of knowing the overheads are If you have called in these favours, then at least you shouldn't get a bill at the end...and if the bands are supportive of each other then if each band can get 40 people..easier said than done... then you should have a good crowd. Good luck.... you just have to think these things thru..and know what you are in for.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILL POSTERS Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 In these situations the people bands bring with them tend to leave when 'their' band has finished. if you can find a way to counteract this and encourage them to stay, it would make for a much better night. How about a grand finale, multi band jam, or after gig party for 'invited guests' ? Just invite everybody but by word of mouth to make them feel part of an inner circle, punters love that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 [quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1449432189' post='2923499'] Hi folks, Thank you to everyone for your input - its been really helpful when it comes to thinking things through. In the end we managed to call in a couple of favours and it looks as if we can put the whole thing on for free. We managed to get a sound-engineer who needs to do a live show for his degree course at the local music college and so offered to cover for free. He comes complete with a nice PA courtesy of his college too which is fantastic. We've also managed to negotiate a free venue connected to the same college - we keep the door money and they get the bar money which is fine with us. All in all, it looks as if we're going to be able to run the whole night at no cost to any of the bands. We want to encourage everyone possible to come and check us out so we're not charging a door fee which is fine - none of us expect to make money from the band right now anyhow. It's been a bit of a nightmare to organise but it looks to be a happy ending all the same. [/quote] That's fantastic news Remember to return those favours, they're the kind of thing that keeps a music scene going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1449408197' post='2923226'] Sorry Dad - disagree - if you are forking out money to do a gig you are paying to play regardless of how you define "self-promotion" - it has nothing to do with buying your own instruments etc. The equation is simple: We are being paid to do a gig = not paying to play We have to front the money to play the gig = paying to play [/quote] I have to agree with the above. I've been on both sides of the fence and its really tough for originals bands to get gigs, no less getting paid. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 [quote name='Number6' timestamp='1449415400' post='2923318'] Not everyone is motivated by earning money. I enjoy playing music with our band i find it motivates me and is therapeutic. It costs me money to go out and visit a theatre or a gig or even to rehearse. If a band play and gig for their own enjoyment too the 40 nicker or thereabouts for the band is good value for me. Some like their £££ / €€€ / $$$ Some aren't too fussed. Must be the Communist in me [/quote] In the states our bar gigs are four hours long. Are you saying you would haul full PA and lights and play for 4 hours for free? Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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