blue Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 [quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1449963441' post='2928483'] I love curries, my favourite food...you cannot beat a good curry is what I always say. My best friend on the other hand hates Indian food and prefers good old fish n chips. He cannot understand why Indian chef's waste their undoubted ability & craft to waste their time blending all of of those wonderful spices and ingredients into a food source as objectionable as curry. I also really enjoy Weather Report & Jaco (preferably as a collective) - my friend prefers AC/DC. I'm right, he's right.... [/quote] I happen to love both. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) [quote name='chriswareham' timestamp='1450027526' post='2928896'] Bollocks. The vast majority of bass players today don't play Jazz or noodle around, mostly on a fretless, or even play without a pick. I was utterly underwhelmed by Pastorius and in particiular the tedious elevator music of Weather Report. Quite amused by the usual suspects on here who arrogantly claim that someone shouldn't play bass if they can't appreciate Pastorius. They tickle me pink (or possibly blue), since judging by their other posts they're playing in cover or function bands. The typical muso bores who seem to have never written their own material but just mimic others. [/quote] I think I'm probably one of these muso bores who noodles around and has had an open enough mind to have been influenced by a vast range of musicians and genres over the years - and thus am able to play a range of styles etc. The really curious thing is that people often say to me after gigs, we really enjoyed the bass - most groups who come here have bass players who only play a couple of different notes on the first few frets. So audiences enjoy it - even slap!!! Not sure why some bassists or other musicians don't (although I've seldom worked with them). If you were a musician in the mid 70s you would have been as exposed to Jaco, Louis Johnson, Geezer Butler, the bassist in the New Seekers, the ska players, ELO etc etc etc as the punk people (if not more so). Unless you were there at the time you won't understand this as BBC sound bite programmes are notoriously selective and overstate the influence of punk hugely. The NME was (probably still is) notoriously discriminatory towards the 'latest thing' - that being punk then - it was simply that generation's angry young men who happened to include gobbing and fake (or real) self harm in their uniform. They didn't appear to me to be anything different from, say goths or mods in terms of a youth culture. Btw I loved bands like the Sex Pistols and marvelled over their album (though believed it was played by sessions guys it was that good) - so I'm no hater. However I, amongst others in this thread, find it hard to understand how a rational person could dismiss Jacos influence on music - his technique and musicianship speak for themselves. Listen to the theme music to Bergerac - the bass part wouldn't have happened without the influence of Karn and Palladino - both of whom were clearly heavily influenced by Jaco. His influence crossed over the whole musical scene - as did jazz fusion in the mid 70s. A final point of interest - I went to see Herbie Hancock in concert circa 1979 - he played two sets announced as comprising - set 1 jazz - set 2 fusion. The hall was probably 20% full for the first set - over full for the second (comprising hit singles complete with vocoder, current album tracks and funkier head hunters material). The point is, even in the heyday of jazz fusion, 'jazz' was an esoteric and less popular genre. To put this in perspective this was concurrent with the first Star Wars film and that generation - the largest proportion of which were not punks!!!!! History lesson over lol .......... Edited December 13, 2015 by drTStingray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 As peerlessly talented as he was, loads of what Jaco does is IMO unlistenable noodling... it's just there for the sake of it. I've got no interest in listening to it because it's technically clever. It just doesn't sound very good. Mr. Jaco & I are in it for different reasons, basically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 [quote name='Rich' timestamp='1450006680' post='2928658'] Will you please give it up with the "if you don't like Jaco you should give up" stuff? It's demeaning and more than a little insulting. Added to which we've heard it (more than) once and it's getting tedious. Yes I'm tetchy this morning. [/quote] I am afraid that I have to disagree – everyone is entitled to have an opinion. Maude seems to be of the opinion that he is a highly respected musician, that he can disregard every influential bass player of the past 50 years and dismiss whole genres of music as worthless. Blue seems to think that some people should not be allowed within 50 feet of a musical instrument! I’m with Blue on this one. This is very little to do with Jaco. I don’t like country music but I can appreciate that there is a lot of good stuff in the genre and a lot of great players playing that type of music, so I occasionally watch the odd YouTube clip on country bass players to see if there is anything I can learn from them. I certainly do not dismiss all the great country players and make stupid statements how I can pull better country songs ‘out of my ass’ than some of the most highly regarded figures in that genre! No one is above criticism, Jaco or anyone else. Coilte makes a perfectly reasonable point in post 335, as has Bilbo in the past. But just disregarding the most acclaimed and influential bass players for the hell of it is just the equivalent of a surly teenager wanting to paint their bedroom walls black. It’s all a bit dumb really, this is supposed to be a community of musicians after all… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1450030877' post='2928953'] It just doesn't sound very good. Mr. Jaco & I are in it for different reasons, basically. [/quote] There are a lot of presumptions there. I suspect some of the deeper reasons we are all in it is to perform in front of people - Jaco, you and I included. And we all show off - some of us just have a greater or lesser technical and musical competence - and at times suffer from misjudgement as to what is or is not musical noodling (or going OTT). Some love the antics of Messrs Townsend and Moon - which sometimes borders on twattery of the highest order IMO - along with some of Jacos antics. Edited December 13, 2015 by drTStingray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriswareham Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) [quote name='blue' timestamp='1450029592' post='2928920'] If your going to bash those of us who chose to play covers that's ok. [/quote] I don't care what they do until they tell me I'm not a "real" bassist because I find Jazz/Fusion boring. Or those like the bassist from a tribute act that supported us recently, who told me I should burn my Greco because it "isn't a real Rickenbacker". [quote name='blue' timestamp='1450029592' post='2928920'] Would you like to here my opinion of most local original music? [/quote] Not really. Edited December 13, 2015 by chriswareham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1450030877' post='2928953'] As peerlessly talented as he was, loads of what Jaco does is IMO unlistenable noodling... it's just there for the sake of it. I've got no interest in listening to it because it's technically clever. It just doesn't sound very good. Mr. Jaco & I are in it for different reasons, basically. [/quote] I would agree that Jaco was certainly guilty of occasional coked up noodling – just see the various clips of his Weather Report solos! However, the good stuff (the first solo album, Heavy Weather, the Chicken, the Joni stuff, etc) more than makes up for it. It may be it 'technically clever' but it goes deeper than that, it is worth checking out... Edited December 13, 2015 by peteb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriswareham Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) [quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1450030782' post='2928950'] I think I'm probably one of these muso bores who noodles around and has had an open enough mind to have been influenced by a vast range of musicians and genres over the years - and thus am able to play a range of styles etc. [/quote] I've got pretty broad tastes, but what I actually play would not be a lot of peoples cup of tea. That's fine, and if what you do floats your boat then that's also fine. But there a a couple of people on this board who seem to take great delight in belittling others with their dick swinging comments. For them the gloves are off. And just for the record I can enjoy a bit of slap and fretless (Bootsy or Mick Karn for instance). Pastorius leaves me cold though. Edited December 13, 2015 by chriswareham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I did just post another comment, but have deleted it -- the reason being that IMO this thread is going round in pointless circles. Very, very boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 The Jaco fanboys here are struggling with the concept that some people, even competent ones have listened to Jaco but still dont like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 [quote name='Rich' timestamp='1450032987' post='2928993'] I did just post another comment, but have deleted it -- the reason being that IMO this thread is going round in pointless circles. Very, very boring. [/quote] Like teen town then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 [quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1450033421' post='2929004'] Like teen town then! [/quote] Ridiculous!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 [quote name='chriswareham' timestamp='1450027526' post='2928896'] ... they're playing in cover or function bands. The typical muso bores who seem to have never written their own material but just mimic others. [/quote] You're on dodgy ground there because the great many so-called originals bands are playing highly unoriginal songs which badly mimic others. At least, that's my experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1450031668' post='2928972'] ... it is worth checking out... [/quote] I think you'll find that many of us have indeed 'checked out' Pastorius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockfordStone Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Rich' timestamp='1450032987' post='2928993'] I did just post another comment, but have deleted it -- the reason being that IMO this thread is going round in pointless circles. Very, very boring. [/quote] quite, it feels like we are all "aimlessly noodling" Edited December 13, 2015 by RockfordStone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 [quote name='chriswareham' timestamp='1450031416' post='2928968'] I don't care what they do until they tell me I'm not a "real" bassist because I find Jazz/Fusion boring. Or those like the bassist from a tribute act that supported us recently, who told me I should burn my Greco because it "isn't a real Rickenbacker". Not really. [/quote] Great response, I didn't think so. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 [quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1450030334' post='2928934'] It's funny that someone saying something written by someone else is mindless noodling is 'cutting' and should not be said, I dont rate anyone highly enough to be that upset about other people not liking them, I'd be more upset if they aimed it directly at me and my playing and told me to sell my gear! [/quote] Like I said, if you drop a torpedo like "aimless noodling" on an artist like JP, expect anything. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockfordStone Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 a think torpedo is a tad dramatic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmo Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Every time i revisit this thread, I am always hopeful there would be some decent insight. Unfortunately I feel as if I have wasted a minute or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 [quote name='timmo' timestamp='1450036926' post='2929083'] Every time i revisit this thread, I am always hopeful there would be some decent insight. Unfortunately I feel as if I have wasted a minute or so. [/quote] Don't give up heart, there's always the Macca thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 [quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1450036379' post='2929071'] a think torpedo is a tad dramatic... [/quote] Oh no has a "Thought War" been declared 😢 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 [quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1450036379' post='2929071'] a think torpedo is a tad dramatic... [/quote] [i][size=5]'Pink torpedo...?'[/size][/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1450039050' post='2929113'] [i][size=5]'Pink torpedo...?'[/size][/i] [/quote] "They see us on stage with tight trousers and we’ve got, you know, armadillos in our trousers. I mean, it’s really quite frightening, the size. They run screaming." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1449976999' post='2928533'] Post something where we can hear you playing with that level of chops and skill and your comment will be taken seriously. Blue [/quote] I also don't like the music jaco plays, I find it uninspiring at best. Here's me playing, have I got chops or skill? I doubt it, but I prefer the music http://youtu.be/BidjtWfu4Ds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Jaco was incredibly talented, and he had a massive influence on how the bass was played. I think that's fairly widely accepted. I personally like his stuff with Joni Mitchell, but I've been through every other example on this thread and I can't find anything else I like. It all sounds like "fret w***ing" to me, which I guess is the same as "aimless noodling". That's just my opinion. It doesn't mean I haven't learned anything by listening to him, or that I deny his talent or his influence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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