Speaker combinations .

[Kevin Dean]

My Ashdown Rig is 2 x 2x10 neo cabs , would swapping one of the cabs for a 15" of the same make & model add more depth to the sound out front in a pub gig situation when not going through a PA , Or should I just experiment more with my EQ ?

[Lw.]

It will sound different how so is anyone's guess; larger speakers don't necessarily make more "depth" whatever you mean by that (though some might - depends). I'd use your EQ more.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Lw.

[Truckstop]

As above it'll sound different but it's up to you whether you prefer it or not.

Best practice is to match your cabs (as you currently have) to avoid things like phase cancellation and other stuff that I don't really understand.

Also, 15" speakers don't necessarily 'go lower' than 10" speakers. Can't hurt to try it though, you might like it!

[Mykesbass]

Have you checked what it sounds like out front (with a long lead or someone else playing)? What you hear on stage can be wildly different to what it sounds like in the audience.

[Kevin Dean]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1449659241' post='2925600']
Have you checked what it sounds like out front (with a long lead or someone else playing)? What you hear on stage can be wildly different to what it sounds like in the audience.
[/quote]That's what I did I loved my sound from where I normally stand but find the lower tones not projecting out very well .

[Lozz196]

Well I`ve had a couple of 210/15 stacks, and in both cases, the sound of each cab was different, with the 115 being more bassy and the 210 being more toppy. As we all know, speaker size has nothing to do with highs/lows, but it seems to me that the manufacturers voice cabs this way, 15s handling more lows than 10s in general.

Maybe seek out a shop that has the 115 in stock - and if pssible the 210 - and then take along your bass and one of the 210s. Then try them out with each cab, it should soon be pretty apparent if the required depth is there or not.

All that said, ideally I`d play around with the eq - those cabs should handle a lot of lows quite well, but here I`d say look at adding some low-mids, that really adds depth but without booming.

[Chienmortbb]

[quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1449664607' post='2925692']
That's what I did I loved my sound from where I normally stand but find the lower tones not projecting out very well .
[/quote]Are you stacking vertically? If you stack side by side as if it were a 4x10, you will lose more low frequencies further from the stage. if you stack so the drivers are one above the other, they will project the lows further.

[PaulWarning]

must admit I don't get this speaker size doesn't effect depth argument, if that was the case we could all have 1" speakers couldn't we? I've always found a 15" has more grunt than a 10", limited experience granted

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1449667418' post='2925747']
If you stack side by side as if it were a 4x10, you will lose more low frequencies further from the stage. if you stack so the drivers are one above the other, they will project the lows further.
[/quote]Vertical versus side by side placement affects midrange and high frequency dispersion, but it has no effect in the lows.
[quote]must admit I don't get this speaker size doesn't effect depth argument [/quote]There are over a dozen T/S specs that determine low frequency performance. Cone size (Sd) is only one of them, and by no means is it the most significant. The most significant is free-air resonance (Fs). If you look at driver data sheets you'll find that there is only a cursory relationship between Sd and Fs. Examples of some tens with lower Fs than some eighteens abound.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[chris_b]

As long as the cabs have been designed to go together they will sound fine. I used a Mesa Boogie 210 and 115 EV rig for years. It was a great sound but very heavy.

A few years later I had 2 Berg AE210's and that was my favourite. I would keep the 2 210's. I don't see the Ashdown 115 being a better sounding cab than their 210.

[JTUK]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1449668440' post='2925768']
As long as the cabs have been designed to go together they will sound fine. I used a Mesa Boogie 210 and 115 EV rig for years. It was a great sound but very heavy.

A few years later I had 2 Berg AE210's and that was my favourite. I would keep the 2 210's. I don't see the Ashdown 115 being a better sounding cab than their 210.
[/quote]

Yes..I'd agree.

2x210's is a very option IMO. I've never really got why some people think a 15 would be the answer here...but that is because I know it wouldn't be for me.
But...you'll need to try it and see how it suits you.

And you should always be looking to know how you sound 20-30ft away.

[Kevin Dean]

It's the sound at that distance , that concerns me , My Barefaced super 12T is very good at projecting the sound , I've been using the Ashdowns stacked because I get a clearer sound standing close to my rig. I think I'm going to sell the lot & get two Barefaced cabs to stack .

Edited December 9, 2015 by Kevin Dean

[Tdw]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1449668122' post='2925760']
must admit I don't get this speaker size doesn't effect depth argument, if that was the case we could all have 1" speakers couldn't we? I've always found a 15" has more grunt than a 10", limited experience granted
[/quote]

We could have 1" speakers. If you put loads of 1" speakers in a 1 x 15 sized box it would work fine justb like a 1 x 15, but its much cheaper and simpler to just put a single 15" in there.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Tdw' timestamp='1449674794' post='2925863']
We could have 1" speakers. If you put loads of 1" speakers in a 1 x 15 sized box it would work fine justb like a 1 x 15, but its much cheaper and simpler to just put a single 15" in there.
[/quote]right, ok I get that and I understand about 2 x 10" nearly being the same area as a 1 x 15" ("1 x12" being more I think) and all things being equal like speaker throw being long enough a 2 x 10" or 12" will give as much grunt, but it's a lot easier (and cheaper) to get grunt out a 15" speaker than 2 x 10" speakers because the loudest frequency the speaker gives out will be lower in a 15" speaker, or of course, I could be talking a load of bollocks

[xgsjx]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1449668122' post='2925760']
must admit I don't get this speaker size doesn't effect depth argument, if that was the case we could all have 1" speakers couldn't we? I've always found a 15" has more grunt than a 10", limited experience granted
[/quote]
PJB cabs are multiples of 5" drivers. The only big difference between a 5" & a 15" driver is that the single 15" will move more air than a single 5".

[Lozz196]

[quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1449673658' post='2925852']
It's the sound at that distance , that concerns me , My Barefaced super 12T is very good at projecting the sound , I've been using the Ashdowns stacked because I get a clearer sound standing close to my rig. I think I'm going to sell the lot & get two Barefaced cabs to stack .
[/quote]

For bigger stages/gigs I use two of the Super 12Ts - side by side as wary of toppling - and the amount of sound is both awesome and frightening at the same time. I got the special lead off of Alex, and OBBM, so I can connect these two 4ohm cabs to my amp.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1449676017' post='2925878']
the loudest frequency the speaker gives out will be lower in a 15" speaker[/quote]-1.
[quote] or of course, I could be talking a load of bollocks[/quote]+1.

[taunton-hobbit]

TDW (#13)....I recall that Bose did something similar in the 80's...a lot of little (5"?) speakers in a box on a pole, with a controller.
Someone help me out here-I can't recall what the thing was called?

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1449678712' post='2925910']
-1.
+1.
[/quote]there you go then

[stevebasshead]

[quote name='taunton-hobbit' timestamp='1449678823' post='2925912']
TDW (#13)....I recall that Bose did something similar in the 80's...a lot of little (5"?) speakers in a box on a pole, with a controller.
Someone help me out here-I can't recall what the thing was called?


[/quote]Bose 802. The controller was basically just a preset eq to get the best out of the speaker, and amp iirc

OT but we have a pair that we're going to try as floor monitors with a Yamaha power amp + eq pedals until we can afford a proper monitoring solution.

Edited December 9, 2015 by stevebasshead

[discreet]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1449676017' post='2925878']
...of course, I could be talking a load of bollocks.
[/quote]

[JTUK]

[quote name='stevebasshead' timestamp='1449679286' post='2925920']
Bose 802. The controller was basically just a preset eq to get the best out of the speaker, and amp iirc

OT but we have a pair that we're going to try as floor monitors with a Yamaha power amp + eq pedals until we can afford a proper monitoring solution.
[/quote]

I'd expect this to be a bit iffy... but it depends on your definition of iffy.

I wouldn't do it normally as you need the controller/EQ to make it sound ok...
We used Martin's and they were 'average' without the controller, but blindingly good with.

We replaced Martin's on weight grounds alone, with QSC KW112 and the Martin 500 ICTS plus M1 controller
killed them.. IMO.

Edited December 9, 2015 by JTUK

[Tdw]

[quote name='taunton-hobbit' timestamp='1449678823' post='2925912']
TDW (#13)....I recall that Bose did something similar in the 80's...a lot of little (5"?) speakers in a box on a pole, with a controller.
Someone help me out here-I can't recall what the thing was called?


[/quote]

Yes, I'm sure Bose and others have done similar things, i suppose the advantage of multiple smaller speakers is that you can make the enclosures in more shapes, for example a horizontal tv soundbar can be conveniently long and narrow with multiple small speakers.

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1449676017' post='2925878']
right, ok I get that and I understand about 2 x 10" nearly being the same area as a 1 x 15" ("1 x12" being more I think) and all things being equal like speaker throw being long enough a 2 x 10" or 12" will give as much grunt, but it's a lot easier (and cheaper) to get grunt out a 15" speaker than 2 x 10" speakers because the loudest frequency the speaker gives out will be lower in a 15" speaker, or of course, I could be talking a load of bollocks
[/quote]

Not necessarily, a 1 x 15 may or may not be louder at a low frequency compared to a 2 x10. Also i think the "throw" is mainly due to differences in dispersal which will be different for 1x 15 and a 2 x 10 ( and different between a vertical or horizontal 2 x 10). however a 1 x15 should (all things being even) be slightly (at least technically) louder and cheaper.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Tdw' timestamp='1449689058' post='2926034'] i think the "throw" is mainly due to...[/quote]There's no such thing as throw, at least not where bass cabs are concerned. All lose volume at the same rate, 6dB per doubling of distance when room reflections are not present. Variations in that rate are due to room reflections, not the speaker. Line sources behave differently, but we don't use line sources for bass. A vertical stack of tens or twelves will have some line source properties, but only in the upper midrange.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[Kevin Dean]

It's the height I need for monitoring , I've tried putting the cab on a flight case etc , I wonder If I could do the same as you have but with a smaller BF cab on op of the 12T ?