Sid Vicious - undervalued bass innovator?

[Billy Apple]

Sid is quite a tragic character. I knew a person who was around the band and it was alleged he was abused in the communes in Ibiza he was raised in as a child. That and having a junkie mother who supplied him with heroin made for a bad mix. I think it was Viv Albertine who mentioned his adult bed wetting. That and a penchant for animal cruelty could be signs of childhood trauma.

Very sad.

[TrevorR]

[quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1449784883' post='2926908']
What about this bassist? A 90s icon!

[/quote]

Rubbish bassist, but if you want that piano shifting upstairs then he's yer man!

[Highfox]

Just to prove he did actually try to play live . As has been said Sid was all about attitude and look, not his playing.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBVDSz5Qd6g[/media]

Edited December 11, 2015 by Highfox

[KevB]

[quote name='Highfox' timestamp='1449823566' post='2927108']
As has been said Sid was all about attitude and look, not his playing.
[/quote]

Pretty much punk in a nutshell really.

[timmo]

He was one of the most iconic figures in music at the time. Maybe not gifted bass wise, but most people knew who he was in the late 70's

[steantval]

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1449828749' post='2927205']


Pretty much punk in a nutshell really.
[/quote]

I second that.

[GarethFlatlands]

Tomorrow's controversial thread!

"Your favourite bass player: They're a bit crap really aren't they?"

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='Highfox' timestamp='1449823566' post='2927108']
Just to prove he did actually try to play live . As has been said Sid was all about attitude and look, not his playing.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBVDSz5Qd6g[/media]
[/quote]

Here's the soundcheck. I heard some mistakes.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GX-PZNig70[/media]

[2elliot]

SV known by many average joes, most other bass players are known by not so many.

[kevvo66]

Everyone remembers him , but I remember seeing the the news after the Nancy spungeons death and the interview he did its was quit sad really obviciously high or coming down I'm not sure which . He was exploited by the media as some type of toy i was just discovering my way with music as 13 yr old teenager me and my mates loved Sid is image was fantastic the punk movement was why a lot of us picked instruments up in the first place was not the prog rock type bands and 20mins solo did nothing for me or my mates ,as I got older I now love all music . But way back then the youth needed a voice and oh boy did it get one

Edited December 12, 2015 by kevvo66

[NancyJohnson]

I have the Sex Pistols 'Some Product' album...despite the attitude etc. what's always struck me was how well spoken the guy was compared to today's yoof.

The line that always cracks me up is when Sid descibes Steve Jones; 'I thought he looked like a turtle.'

[Thunderbird]

Sid is better than that Jaco geezer that everyone keeps banging on about lol ......runs and hides

[kevvo66]

Second that sorry didn't get jaco and still don't this will upset the jaco fans but hey that life ,;-)

[Billy Apple]

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1449909449' post='2927838']
I have the Sex Pistols 'Some Product' album...despite the attitude etc. what's always struck me was how well spoken the guy was compared to today's yoof.

The line that always cracks me up is when Sid descibes Steve Jones; 'I thought he looked like a turtle.'
[/quote]

Sid was always a bright witty guy. John Lydon mentions his off the cuff put downs when he was being harassed during his Bowie phase. He was living in the West Country before moving to London as a youngster as was known as Bristol John to his mates because of this accent.

[PunkPonyPrincess]

That jaco shreds spoof on YouTube is frightfully close to some of his output. I am all for ambidigit virtuosity I am not so much into folk looking down with their 8 or 10 string burr walnut and Pau Ferro monstrosities going through boutique costabomb amps and implying there is something better than playing one string at a time in first and second position on a beat up Squier Prescision that is not even <gasp> active!

Punk is a style, it's minimalism is part of the aesthetic... I can play jazz noodle like every other Percy Jones wannabe but frankly? It's not my cup-a. Been there, tried that, decided it's not fun. Stripped back.

No one has an issue with Dee Dee Ramone and he was terrible in the early days... a few unknown gigs everyone forgets about a chance to practice not in the limelight and he's up to speed for a career.

Sid was in the full glare as a n00b from the onset. Sid wanted fame. Poor kid got it.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Bownose

[blue]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1449831011' post='2927238']
He was one of the most iconic figures in music at the time. Maybe not gifted bass wise, but most people knew who he was in the late 70's
[/quote]

Agreed

Blue

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1449831011' post='2927238']
He was one of the most iconic figures in music at the time. Maybe not gifted bass wise, but most people knew who he was in the late 70's
[/quote]

Most people? You really think most of the population in the late 1970s were interested in punk, pistols, and a punk bass player?

More people knew the Yorkshire Ripper and were listening to The Bee Gees.

But I bet very few knew that Maurice Gibb was their bassist.

[timmo]

So few people outside his area knew who Peter Suttcliffe was until 1981 and Sid Vicious had been on the news for a good 2 years, and dead before Sutcliffe was identified. So to say more people at the time knew who he was in the 70's is not really true.As millions watched the news as there weren't many channels, and the newspaper circulation was huge, I would imagine you would be living under a rock not too have heard of him. Especially if you were a music fan, which most of us on here are, which is really why I said most people
.Also. most of the population of the UK only needs to be 51%, and I would imagine that many knew who he was. Granted in a popularity poll of the 70`s, The Yorkshire Ripper could well get more hits than Sid.The Bee Gees best years were probably on the wane by 1981 so not too sure how many people were listening to them then when Peter Suttcliffe was charged. I maintain that if you showed a photo of Sid Vicious and Maurice Gibb, more people would indentify or at least recognise Sid Vicious.

Edited December 15, 2015 by timmo

[upside downer]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1450213352' post='2930683']
The Bee Gees best years were probably on the wane by 1981
[/quote]

So were Peter Sutcliffe's

[steve-soar]

Sid was the best known bassist of the 70's. End of.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1450213352' post='2930683']
So few people outside his area knew who Peter Suttcliffe was until 1981 and Sid Vicious had been on the news for a good 2 years. So to say more people at the time knew who he was in the 70's is not really true.As millions watched the news as there weren't mamy channels, and the newspaper circulation was huge, I would imagine you would be living under a rock not too have heard of him. Especially if you were a music fan, which most of us on here are, which is really why I said most people.The Bee Gees best years were probably on the wane by 1981 so not too sure how many people were listening to them then when Peter Suttcliffe was charged. I maintain that if you showed a photo of Sid Vicious and Maurice Gibb, more people would indentify or at least recognise Sid Vicious.
[/quote]

I made no mention of Peter Sutcliffe, so his charge in 1981 is irrelevant. I also made no mention of 1981.

The Yorkshire murders dated back throughout the 1970s and were reported outside of Yorkshire. I knew about them living in the midlands. Anyway, Yorkshire is a big place.and there are lots of people there. The murders were commonly known as the Yorkshire Ripper murders by 1979.

The Bee Gees in 1981 are of no relevance to The Bee Gees in the late 1970s. Why on earth have you mentioned that year?

In 1976 the soundtrack to [i]Saturday Night Fever[/i] had sold 2 million copies in the UK alone.

In 1979 The Bee Gees had their Biggest selling album for fifteen years - [i]Spirits Having Flown[/i] - selling 20 million copies worldwide and the single from that album [i]Tragedy[/i] was number 1 and also a multi-million seller. Vicious died 2nd Feb 1979; one week later The Bee Gees entered the chart at number 7 and went to number 1 two weeks later. The Bee Gees were not on the wane.

Even so, I expect only a minority could have recognised a Bee Gee and even fewer would have known that Maurice was the bassist.

I still say the claim that 'most people' knew Vicious is highly improbable.

And the audience of Basschat is certainly not most people. It's not even a representative sample of bassists.

[timmo]

[quote name='steve-soar' timestamp='1450215283' post='2930710']
Sid was the best known bassist of the 70's. End of.
[/quote]I reckon Suzi Quatro could run him close. Maybe more for the leather jumpsuit than her bass prowess

[timmo]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1450216113' post='2930717']
I made no mention of Peter Sutcliffe, so his charge in 1981 is irrelevant. I also made no mention of 1981.

The Yorkshire murders dated back throughout the 1970s and were reported outside of Yorkshire. I knew about them living in the midlands. Anyway, Yorkshire is a big place.and there are lots of people there. The murders were commonly known as the Yorkshire Ripper murders by 1979.

The Bee Gees in 1981 are of no relevance to The Bee Gees in the late 1970s. Why on earth have you mentioned that year?

In 1976 the soundtrack to [i]Saturday Night Fever[/i] had sold 2 million copies in the UK alone.

In 1979 The Bee Gees had their Biggest selling album for fifteen years - [i]Spirits Having Flown[/i] - selling 20 million copies worldwide and the single from that album [i]Tragedy[/i] was number 1 and also a multi-million seller. Vicious died 2nd Feb 1979; one week later The Bee Gees entered the chart at number 7 and went to number 1 two weeks later. The Bee Gees were not on the wane.

Even so, I expect only a minority could have recognised a Bee Gee and even fewer would have known that Maurice was the bassist.

I still say the claim that 'most people' knew Vicious is highly improbable.

And the audience of Basschat is certainly not most people. It's not even a representative sample of bassists.

[/quote]Point 1. You said most people knew the Yorkshire Ripper. No one knew the Yorkshire Ripper. If they did, it was most likely he would have been caught earlier if more people knew who he was in the 70`s.? Maybe they knew the name, but no one knew the person, so they could not have possibly have known in the 70`s
Point 2. I mentioned 1981 as you said that most people knew the Yorkshire Ripper, which they could not have as he was not unmasked until 1981, so as you mentioned the Bee Gee`s at the same time, which was 1981, and they were on the wane.
Point 3 is irrelevant. Just because people loved the Bee Gee`s does not mean that they knew nothing of The Sex Pistols or Sid Vicious. Lots of kids read Smash Hits, and the Sex Pistols were constantly on the news for 2 years. Sid Vicious and Jonny Rotten were probably more well known by name than any of the Bee Gees.
Point 4. I still maintain that by the end of 1979 more than 51% of the UK knew who Sid Vicious was, which would be most people
I still maintain that more people would identify Sid Vicious today , or even in 1979 than Maurice Gibb even after 20 million sales. I still say that a large proportion of basschatters know of Sid Vicious

[colgraff]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1450217257' post='2930729']
Point 4. I still maintain that by the end of 1979 more than 51% of the UK knew who Sid Vicious was, which would be most people.
[/quote]

While I hesitate to interfere with your maintaining, I feel it behoves me to point out that, in the late 70s, 38.8% of the country were either over 65 or under 10. There was a further 8.7% who were first generation immigrants or the immature children of first generation immigrants. I can't prove it, but I suspect that the Sex Pistols made pretty poor inroads into these demographic groups.
If we assume that 10% of pensioners and immigrants knew who Sid Vicious was (and this is a generous assumption) then you need slightly over two thirds of the rest of the country to be able to know who he was and that he played bass. This is improbable in the extreme.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1450217257' post='2930729']
Point 1. You said most people knew the Yorkshire Ripper. No one knew the Yorkshire Ripper. If they did, it was most likely he would have been caught earlier if more people knew who he was in the 70`s.? Maybe they knew the name, but no one knew the person, so they could not have possibly have known in the 70`s
[/quote]

I did not say 'most people' I said 'more people'. The Yorkshire Ripper was the epithet given to the person who was indeed later identified as Peter Sutcliffe. In 1979 when Vicious died more people were aware of the existence of the Yorkshire Ripper, than of Vicious, whether or not they knew the Yorkshire Ripper's true name - that was my claim. Were the police sat around saying 'we don't know his name yet or who he is so therefore the Yorkshire Ripper, so-called, doesn't exist'?

Even if I were to be wrong about that, it would remain the case that it was not true that 'most people' knew or knew of Vicious.

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1450217257' post='2930729']
Point 2. I mentioned 1981 as you said that most people knew the Yorkshire Ripper, which they could not have as he was not unmasked until 1981, so as you mentioned the Bee Gee`s at the same time, which was 1981, and they were on the wane.
[/quote]

1981 is irrelevant. Vicious died in 1979.

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1450217257' post='2930729']
Point 3 is irrelevant. Just because people loved the Bee Gee`s does not mean that they knew nothing of The Sex Pistols or Sid Vicious. Lots of kids read Smash Hits, and the Sex Pistols were constantly on the news for 2 years. Sid Vicious and Jonny Rotten were probably more well known by name than any of the Bee Gees.
[/quote]

I have not claimed that people 'knew nothing' of The Sex Pistols or Vicious; my claim was clearly and straightforwardly that The Bee Gees were better known. Of course, 'lots of kids' did read [i]Smash Hits[/i] but 'lots of kids' is nowhere near to 'most people'. I haven't been able to ascertain the size of the readership of [i]Smash Hits[/i] in 1979 but I'm pretty confident it's fewer than 'most people'.

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1450217257' post='2930729']
Point 4. I still maintain that by the end of 1979 more than 51% of the UK knew who Sid Vicious was, which would be most people
I still maintain that more people would identify Sid Vicious today , or even in 1979 than Maurice Gibb even after 20 million sales. I still say that a large proportion of basschatters know of Sid Vicious
[/quote]
51% of the UK population is 'most people' - there you are correct - and I expect a large proportion of Basschat regulars who do not constitute 'most people' might well know of Vicious. But 51% of the UK population? That would be pushing it even for McCartney.

My claim about Maurice Gibb was, in fact, that 'most people' would not be able to identify him as The Bee Gees bassist. But actually I doubt that 'most people' could identify him at all.

It's past my bedtime now.