Guitars with Humbuckers.

[Dandelion]

Why do I find them so awful to listen too? Ok for heavy overdriven sounds perhaps, but no better than single coils. The tone they produce is muffled and indistinct. All low fidelity middle with woolly bass. For lead work they sound ok too, but for rhythm they just sound like a vacuum cleaner. I don't get it. I read about the humbucker tone, the apparent 'creamyness', and the harmonic richness. But I just don't hear it. In fact it makes me cross when I hear them. Why use humbuckers on a guitar when single coils sound so much better. I realise this could be a personal taste thing, I am no guitar player myself, but I must be missing something, Or perhaps the guitarists in my band need to alter their eq?

[Dandelion]

Having re-read the above I am prepared to accept that it is probably just me..

[Lozz196]

Think it depends on both genre, and the way the guitarist themself sets the eq. Our guitarist uses the "classic" Les Paul/Marshall Valve Amp/412 set-up and the sound is amazing, but then we`re a punk band, need that aggression in the music.

[Cato]

I'd guess it's probably down to your guitarists tone/eq/amp settings. Or maybe he has a dodgy guitar?

There are a lot of myths about humbucker vs single coils, most of which can be largely dispelled by browsing you tube and watching people playing Slayer or Metallica riffs on telecasters or pristine sounding Gilmour or Clapton solos on Les Pauls.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Cato

[Maude]

[quote name='Cato' timestamp='1449928339' post='2928074']


There are a lot of myths about humbucker vs single coils, most of which can be largely dispelled by browsing you tube and watching people playing Slayer or Metallica riffs on telecasters or pristine sounding Gilmour or Clapton solos on Les Pauls.
[/quote]

A bit like bassists claiming they can only play certain music on certain basses

[ezbass]

When I was playing only guitar, I used to find bridge 'buckers way too honky, but Strat/Tele bridge pickups too shrill. Enter the mighty P90 . To be fair, there are so many pickups out there which are voiced differently, you can produce pretty much anything tonewise with different magnets and coils. Case in point, the pickups on my Tele are standard Tele size, hum cancelling (humbuckers), but voiced like P90s.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Dandelion' timestamp='1449927754' post='2928066']
Or perhaps the guitarists in my band need to alter their eq?
[/quote]

Perhaps they are using too much gain, its a very easy trap to fall into these days as most pedal/amp/modelers have an abundance of gain and its easy to get lured into dialing in way to much especially if you dial in your tone at bedroom volume levels. Humbuckers tend to have a gain sweet spot for both rhythm and lead and muddy up quickly beyond that point.

[ribbetingfrog]

I personally can't stand single coils!
All that shrill chirpiness.
Give me a humbucker with balls any day.

I think the quality of humbucker is a big point, I have Seymour Duncan Blackouts and Gibson Dirty Fingers in my guitars and never find them muddy or indistinct, quite the opposite.

[fleabag]

Our lead git uses a Gibbo LP / Marshall , and has no prob with woolly.

Our rhyth git uses Strats / Marshall ... ditto.

[EssentialTension]

It's the guitarists not the pickups.

You just need a different guitarist(s).

[ahpook]

/Wakes up from sleeping in over-stuff leather armchair/

What ? Tone is in your fingers. Yaaaarrrgh !

/Slumps and falls asleep, snorring/

Edited December 12, 2015 by ahpook

[Norris]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1449946584' post='2928314']
It's the guitarists not the pickups.

You just need a different guitarist(s).
[/quote]

My guitarist uses whichever guitar he fancies on the night and he has a few of them. Singles, 'buckers, P90s. He never struggles with muddiness or harshness. He just tweaks the amp and pedals accordingly. Some may struggle to feedback when he wants them to, but that's probably more due to the actual room rather than anything else.

I think the OP's guitarist(s) need to learn to control their equipment. The manufacturers put knobs on amps and pedals for a reason

[geoffbyrne]

'Buckers have inherently more mids (if wired in series), so cutting the bass & centring the mids pots might be a good starting place to improving muddy tone.

G.

[Rubbersoul]

I like 'buckers for heavy grunt and singles for clarity. Depends on my mood. I have heard people say you can't play metal on a Tele : bullshit. It's all about eq and proper control of your rig. Just as it is with bass.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Rubbersoul

[GarethFlatlands]

I think metal guitarists like them as they can use a lighter touch with the pick and still get an aggressive sound. Useful for someone with weak, girly hands like me. Having said that, I prefer single coils in general but have used humbuckers over the years with no issues. Like everyone said already, it's how you set your rig up as to whether or not they sound bad.

[BigRedX]

There's no right answer because it depends entirely on what kind of sound you want. Remember also that hum buckers can be coil-tapped and single coils wired so that when two are on together they act as a humbucker.

And there's always the option of P90 type pickups - darker and heavier and more output than a standard single coil. However you need to choose carefully as some of the cheaper ones have the disadvantages of both - not enough definition in the highs and no hum cancelling.

[M@23]

[quote name='Rubbersoul' timestamp='1450047302' post='2929201']
I like 'buckers for heavy grunt and singles for clarity. Depends on my mood. I have heard people say you can't play metal on a Tele : bullshit. It's all about eq and proper control of your rig. Just as it is with bass.
[/quote]

Teles are perfect for metal. We used to quad track guitars with really, really tight guitarists. For that Teles were perfect as they had tightness and clarity needed. Much bigger sound than one EMG loaded ESP with too much gain.

OP, sorry man. It'll be your guitarists and their amps, EQ and technique, not the fact that they play humbuckers that is making the sound muddy.

[JellyKnees]

I have an SG1000 and I love the thick round tone that I can get from the humbuckers. It also has the advantage of being fitted with coil taps so I can get that single coil vibe too. Again, I think it's all about how you sculpt your amp tone (in my case in via Guitar Rig) to get the sound of the guitar to sit nicely in the mix.

[DaytonaRik]

I think the difference between the two types was much more obvious before the introduction of modern hi-gain amps. Back when a JCM800 ruled the roost, a single coil guitar simply couldn't get the same drive and break-up as a humbucker shod instrument.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='DaytonaRik' timestamp='1450091856' post='2929433']
I think the difference between the two types was much more obvious before the introduction of modern hi-gain amps. Back when a JCM800 ruled the roost, a single coil guitar simply couldn't get the same drive and break-up as a humbucker shod instrument.
[/quote]
Nonetheless there were guitarists using single coils and plenty of 'drive and break-up' - Hendrix for example.

[Happy Jack]

Anything more than a Telecaster is just showing off.

[Bassassin]

I'm a bit of a pretend guitarist on the side, and on balance I will always go for single coils over 'buckers when recording. Much easier to achieve brightness & clarity, and pretty much automatically leave a nice space for the bass to sit in, without having to spend ages fiddling with eq.

I have a nice 80s Fenix Strat and an Aria PE with p90s which I use pretty much exclusively, even for heavier stuff.

Jon.

[Nicko]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1450093499' post='2929448']
Anything more than a Telecaster is just showing off.
[/quote]

I agree, preferably a thinline, with a 'bucker in the neck position. I'll get my coat.

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1450093499' post='2929448']
Anything more than a Telecaster is just showing off.
[/quote]

Nothing is 'more' than a Telecaster!

Many modern humbuckers are wound very hot, which means they are great for generating distortion but sound rather dull played clean. By contrast, an 'underwound' humbucker can sound very nice and characterful.

A good P90 can be a flexible alternative, but there is not just one P90 sound, and the guitar in which they are installed can make a lot of difference.

[Cato]

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1450097018' post='2929485']


I agree, preferably a thinline, with a 'bucker in the neck position. I'll get my coat.
[/quote]

What is it with bass players and telecasters?

I've got a MiM 1972 thinline reissue which I bought c.2000.

It's the best skinny string I've ever owned and up there with the best I've ever played.

I don't know if it's the simplicity of the controls or the relatively chunky necks, but I've known a fair few tele owning bass players down the years.