Barefaced BB2 + Compact (G2) vs TKS 1126 cabs.

[mcnach]

Excuse the poor quality phone picture. I hate this phone...

Aaaanyway.

In November 2014 I ordered a pair of TKS 1126 cabs, one with a tweeter, without having heard them before, purely on reviews and on dimensions: they seemed designed for the boot of my car
Plus I could get them in red

The idea was to then let go off the Barefaced cabs (a 2nd generation Compact and a 3rd generation Big Baby 2). These speaker cabs were nice, and light, but I was never really in love with them and were a bit bigger than ideal. The TKS seemed enough for my requirements.

A year later I still have both sets of cabs and could not make my mind up. Over the past year I've used those cabs in various situations and combinations (with various heads, and also as extension for the little MarkBass combo on the right).

There are things I like on both, and things I dislike in both... and I decided to book a rehearsal room last Sunday, bring in a couple of bandmates (drummer and guitarist) plus another guitarist friend and someone else who wanted to attempt to sing who shall remain nameless , and try all cabs side by side. It's a largeish rehearsal room but still not huge, can't really compare to what it'll sound like in a venue without PA support, however that's a limitation I will have to live with.

So... I used my trusty Stingray with a Genz Benz Streamliner 900 powering the TKS set or the Barefaced set, switching from time to time, playing some fingerstyle and slap, clean and with an EHX Bass Soul Food pedal providing a bit of grit, and mostly playing funk/ska stuff with some rockier heavier things thrown in to make the second guitarist smile a bit...

The conclusion is... I want them all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But I have to make a decision.

If I had to choose on sound alone... The TKS 1126 would get my thumbs up. They just sounded really really nice. They have tons of low end, and the treble is there in spades if you want it. The tweeter is really not required at all on these cabs, in my opinion and for my taste. These speakers sound a bit 'mid scooped' to me. They always felt that way and it's something I didn't like. You can dial in more mids and they really sound nice, but I was not always getting the character I was really looking for. Perhaps I was not using the right amp for my taste... I have mostly been using the Streamliner 900 because it sounded big and I liked that, but perhaps another amp would work better with the 1126 cabs.

The Barefaced, using the same bass/amp settings sounded quite different. They sounded big, and authoritative, but the tone wasn't as round and pretty. However, I found it a lot easier to get a well defined yet fat sound using the Barefaced. I have to watch the mids with this combination as what sounded good with the TKS was too much on the Barefaced.

Dispersion seemed better with the Barefaced too, filling the room retaining definition regardless of where I was. Standing at about 5m it sounded very good. Side by side, the Barefaced were a little lacklustre compared to the TKS, but they weren't bad and once I concentrated on just playing I enjoyed the Barefaced cabs a lot.

I then tried the MarkBass combo. On its own it clearly didn't move nearly as much air, unsurprisingly. Then I added a 1126 cab. This is a combination I have been liking a lot because it's portable yet powerful. The bottom end was nowhere near as deep as with the Streamliner and either set of cabs... how much of that is due to the different amp and how much is due to the much smaller cab, I do not know. But I could turn up the bass control a bit and that actually resulted in a very very nice tone. I have the feeling that the TKS 1126 would suit the MarkBass LM3 or the Genz Benz Shuttle better than the Streamliner.
The MarkBass combo with the Compact or Big Baby 2 sounded also good, but I think I preferred the TKS in that case. The Compact seemed to produce a lot of volume and big lows but it didn't sound as pleasing as the TKS. The Big Baby 2 seemed to be lacking a bit in the low end by comparison... but again, once playing for a bit the ear accepts the change and it's actually a good sound that retains a lot of definition and clarity but still has enough low end.

The Barefaced were the loudest. I could turn up and they just sounded louder. The TKS would also get very loud but I felt that they didn't like being pushed as hard. For sheer volume... Barefaced wins. For 'big' bottom end, TKS had the edge slightly, and their tone was more pleasing... but it was easier to get a well defined cut-through tone with the Barefaced although the bottom end could get a bit muddy at times (the Streamliner certainly would not help there).
Size-wise, the TKS are slightly more compact, which in my case means they can fit in the boot of my car and I don't need to take up space on the back seat and I can leave them in the car without being on display. They're also heavier, 'though. Not terribly heavy, they're still considered 'light'... and they have very good comfortable handles, but the Barefaced are a lot lighter and when having to negotiate stairs and people in a busy bar... it's very welcome.

So... all this is making me think, again, that a pair of TKS S112 would be my ideal cabs at the moment. They seem to be of a nice compact size, with less lows than either BF or 1126 but with a well defined midrange, and very light whilst powerful enough...

I would like to get two S112s while I still have the 1126 and the Barefaced speakers so that I can make sure I make the right decision... but I'm not sure I'll manage to free enough cash without selling other stuff.

At the moment I'm tempted to let the TKS 1126 cabs go, and keep a 'loud and light' set: the Barefaced, which perhaps I'm more used to and I can get a good definition out of more easily. Then I can try the TKS S112s and see whether they can turn into a single solution, if they sound better than the Barefaced ones, for me.
But the 1126 cabs sound soooo nice too. Hmmm.

There'll be a Barefaced or TKS for sale thread soon, but I cannot decide just yet
I might end up advertising both and whichever sells first is the one that goes...

Why is life so complicated???

Edited October 2, 2019 by Dad3353

[Bigwan]

Not really an ideal comparison as your Barefaced stack is a mismatch. On that basis alone I'd keep the TKS stuff if I were you (or sell everything except the BB2 and buy another BB2).

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts of how the BB2 stacks up against the 1126 (i.e. single cab comparison, not the stack).

[FuNkShUi]

So many variables in that test i would gues it would've been hard to truly keep track what everything was doing in comparison to each other!

Whatever you end up deciding though, you have some top quality equipment there.

Spend a little time with any of those set ups and i'm sure you can get the sound you're looking for.

Nice problem to have though eh?

Edited October 2, 2019 by Dad3353

[mcnach]

FuNkShUi said:

So many variables in that test i would gues it would've been hard to truly keep track what everything was doing in comparison to each other!

Whatever you end up deciding though, you have some top quality equipment there.

Spend a little time with any of those set ups and i'm sure you can get the sound you're looking for.

Nice problem to have though eh?

 

Indeed, both sets do the job... that's why I find it so hard to let one go, as both are nice but each have something I like best about them

The final decision is likely to be made largely on the basis of weight/bulk/shape... which tells you there isn't anything wrong with either
I wish I could keep them all, but change in living arrangements mean I need to downsize.

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by Dad3353

[mcnach]

Bigwan said:

Not really an ideal comparison as your Barefaced stack is a mismatch. On that basis alone I'd keep the TKS stuff if I were you (or sell everything except the BB2 and buy another BB2).

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts of how the BB2 stacks up against the 1126 (i.e. single cab comparison, not the stack).

 

 

Not sure it's a mismatch, other than visually (which does bother my mild OCD but...). I had the single Compact first and I asked Alex before getting the BB2, then I went and tried the Compact with a BB2 that someone local had and kindly allowed me to test. They're quite different, but work reasonably well together.
If I were going to have two of the same I'd probably have two BB2 indeed. The Compact is huge and loud, two of them would be awesome, but I do miss a bit of the high midrange which the BB2 provides so easily.

I did not compare directly the 1126 against the BB2 the other day, but I have had enough experience with either separately to know the 1126 has the most pleasant voice of the two, and sounds bigger and fuller (for the volumes I've needed). However the BB2 has a midrange presence that I like a lot in a band context. I think it's something that people either love or hate. Whether it is that most other cabs are slightly mid scooped or the BB2 is a bit more mids-rich, it's got a character that makes it distinct. You can still get a lot of different sounds from it, and EQ it to taste, but it lends itself more to a bass tone that cuts through and doesn't necessarily have to have a lot of bottom end (not saying the BB2 is poor in lows, it isn't, it just doesn't sound as big as other cabs given an identical input signal). The 1126 can sound much bigger and fuller more easily... but for the sound I want it needs the midrange bumped up, and I don't get it just right like I can on the BB2... yet it sounds more... "refined and beautiful" (so hard to describe!!!)

 

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by Dad3353

[Lozz196]

i think the mid-presence of the Barefaced is probably more due to there being very little sound colouring on BF cabs, so whatever eq was used for the more scooped TKS will then sound middy in comparison. That`s why I prefer BF cabs - what I`m getting on stage is what goes to FOH (assuming FOH doesn`t alter it that is).

[Bigwan]

Yeah mismatch is probably too strong a description I know, but they're not an [i]ideal[/i] pairing like the identical TKS cabs (but for the tweeter!).

Interesting to hear the differences in the 2 cabs and I know what you mean about hard to describe - it's like telling people how 2 different brands of chocolate differ in taste!

[cheddatom]

From the OP, it sounds like if you had a good graphic EQ you could get the sound you like from the barefaced, and it'd go louder. That's just how it read to me - I've not tried either brands

[alexclaber]

It's a good problem to have!

I'm pretty certain the TKS 1126 has the woofer we used in the original Big Baby (Gen 2) and the midrange driver we used in the Big One (Gen 1). There'll be some variance depending on the crossover and enclosure tuning but I can fairly accurately predict what they'll sound like.

Unless you've got completely custom 1126 cabs they're actually slightly larger than the BB2, although they look smaller from the front (because they're deeper). The BB2 is very flat in the mids, no midrange bump at all, so if it sounds midrangey then that's because the output from the bass and amp is. The Compact is much more midrangey, less clean and less accurate. They do work together fine but once you're getting into very picky comparisons then they're definitely not an ideal rig! Everything about the Barefaced stack would be better with two BB2s, especially in terms of making the tone less midrangey and the bottom more defined.

There may be a bass cab out there with less of its own character than the BB2 but I've yet to hear it - it just doesn't leave out anything, whilst most cabs either add something or take away something, and as you'll know from messing with EQ, you can change the tone of something hugely by putting a relatively small cut at different points in the midrange, especially with bass guitar which has so much of its tone happening in the 300-900Hz region.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Dad3353

[Muzz]

I had exactly the Streamliner/Compact/BB2 setup, and I thought the cabs and the amp didn't sit very nicely together, which is probably more a Streamliner issue than anything else - it's a lovely warm tubey amp, but can get flubby unless tamed. The F1 I had played much nicer with all sorts of different cabs. FWIW, the best match I think I've heard (though I've been through so many it's getting hard to remember ) for the Streamliner was a Schroeder.

If you're getting sounds you like from both setups, though, it's definitely a good problem to have.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Dad3353

[mcnach]

Yeah mismatch is probably too strong a description I know, but they're not an ideal pairing like the identical TKS cabs (but for the tweeter!).

Interesting to hear the differences in the 2 cabs and I know what you mean about hard to describe - it's like telling people how 2 different brands of chocolate differ in taste!

Ha! pretty much! and I love chocolate so I'd say... have both! Both are delicious! That's what I've done for the past year Edited October 2, 2019 by Dad3353

[mcnach]

i think the mid-presence of the Barefaced is probably more due to there being very little sound colouring on BF cabs, so whatever eq was used for the more scooped TKS will then sound middy in comparison. That`s why I prefer BF cabs - what I`m getting on stage is what goes to FOH (assuming FOH doesn`t alter it that is).

You're probably right about the BF being flat compared to TKS. I personally don't care about cabs being flat or coloured, as long as I like the sound. I colour the signal of the bass at every possible step, and the speaker is yet another link in the chain. You're right 'though that this part then gets lost if I DI, which happens most times... but then it will rarely sound the same when I'm right next to the speaker on stage than what it will sound like from the audience's perspective, so I'm not precious about having a faithfun reproduction of "my tone" (whatever that is). If I get a good sound onstage and the sound engineer can use the signal from my amp (post effects when I use them) to get a good sound at the front, then I'm happy. Edited October 2, 2019 by Dad3353

[mcnach]

From the OP, it sounds like if you had a good graphic EQ you could get the sound you like from the barefaced, and it'd go louder. That's just how it read to me - I've not tried either brands

The BF will go louder, that is definitely correct.
I can use different EQ to make either work reasonably well, absolutely, and if I were going to get all scientific about it and analyse the frequency content etc I'm sure there would be a way to make either of them sound pretty much the way I like. Having said that, my tone shaping controls are somewhat limited (limited EQ on the amp, and different between amps, plus teh same with onboard preamps, and then passive basses too)... so I want something that makes it easy to get there, whatever I use.

Again, let me repeat that: both sound really good!!!!!!!! I'll be happy with either set, which is why I haven't decided yet which ones to keep. My initial plan was to just use the TKS because their dimensions suited my car perfectly... just like that And they were red and beautiful
But if I have to keep just one set, I'll have to balance all these little factors, as there is no clear winner both being pretty awesome.

The TKS generally sound 'prettier', but under some conditions they can be a bit indistinct and too 'airy' for my liking. Some people LOVE that sound and think my BF set is clearly worse... so bear in mind this is just about opinion about a certain je ne sais quoi that separates both sets, with both being quite good at what they do.

The BF set up is louder, but I honestly can't imagine needing to push them that hard for the sort of gigs I play (when more is needed there's ALWAYS a hefty PA to take care of the deep bass). The
BF set is a bit bulkier, and awkward to fit in my current car (it wastes space and can't fit both in the boot at the same time), but they're noticeably lighter and easier to handle, and people love to help me because they're light In addition, the BF gets me close to the sound I want more easily than the TKS 1126... but whether this is because of their inherent character suiting my 'sound' or because I've used them for longer so I understand them better... I'm not sure.
I'm leaning towards keeping the BF at this stage... while I try to work out a situation where it makes sense to keep both sets and can justify it Edited October 2, 2019 by Dad3353

[mcnach]

I had exactly the Streamliner/Compact/BB2 setup, and I thought the cabs and the amp didn't sit very nicely together, which is probably more a Streamliner issue than anything else - it's a lovely warm tubey amp, but can get flubby unless tamed. The F1 I had played much nicer with all sorts of different cabs. FWIW, the best match I think I've heard (though I've been through so many it's getting hard to remember ) for the Streamliner was a Schroeder.

If you're getting sounds you like from both setups, though, it's definitely a good problem to have.

What you say makes a lot of sense to me! The Schroeders tend to be 'accused' of being too mid-rich, perhaps much like BFs do, perhaps because they're less coloured... The Streamliner needs tamed a bit, a scooped cab can make it sound horrible for my taste. The Compact+BB2 sounded better with the LM3 I used to have... and which I'll probably buy again at some point. I thought the Shuttle would do the same job and be a bit more versatile, but I do miss that LM3. Never tried an F1.

It's certainly a 1st world problem Edited October 2, 2019 by Dad3353

[mcnach]

It's a good problem to have!

I'm pretty certain the TKS 1126 has the woofer we used in the original Big Baby (Gen 2) and the midrange driver we used in the Big One (Gen 1). There'll be some variance depending on the crossover and enclosure tuning but I can fairly accurately predict what they'll sound like.

Unless you've got completely custom 1126 cabs they're actually slightly larger than the BB2, although they look smaller from the front (because they're deeper). The BB2 is very flat in the mids, no midrange bump at all, so if it sounds midrangey then that's because the output from the bass and amp is. The Compact is much more midrangey, less clean and less accurate. They do work together fine but once you're getting into very picky comparisons then they're definitely not an ideal rig! Everything about the Barefaced stack would be better with two BB2s, especially in terms of making the tone less midrangey and the bottom more defined.

There may be a bass cab out there with less of its own character than the BB2 but I've yet to hear it - it just doesn't leave out anything, whilst most cabs either add something or take away something, and as you'll know from messing with EQ, you can change the tone of something hugely by putting a relatively small cut at different points in the midrange, especially with bass guitar which has so much of its tone happening in the 300-900Hz region.

You're right about the dimensions of the 1126. Their volume may be slightly larger, but being more "cube-like" they fit well in my boot.

I only ever got to try two BB2 together once, but it was with a Jazz bass with flats in a very large and empty rehearsal room, and my old LM3... I could not directly compare it to what I was used to but the one thing that was striking is how loud they could get, and how much bottom end there was. However the room was not great and it didn't give me a good feel for what the two cabs could sound like together.

Perhaps talking about the character of the BB2 appears to imply it adds a certain colour. I just mean that it sounds different from most other similar cabs, and we know most others tend to be a little scooped. The BB2 never sounded very inspiring at low volume in my apartment unless I EQ'd it heavily. But turn it up in a band situation and it works very well. Edited October 2, 2019 by Dad3353

[Kevin Dean]

Perhaps have a listen to the Doods demo video of the Big Twin II , might giver you an idea of what two BB2 would be like ?

[Opticaleye]

I'm awaiting a 1126 (possibly before Christmas apparently !) and I tried Bassgear's tweeterless one with my Markbass TTE500 and I thought that the response sounded very flat across all frequencies. The TTE has less bottom end, I believe, than the Streamliner so this may bear this out. Hopefully they will be a good match (even though I've uprated to a TTE801 in preparation).

I think, perhaps, that what you are hearing is the sound of the Streamliner through a flat response cab.

[wateroftyne]

Good thread, and it's nice to have so much choice.

I ran the TKS S112 and 1126 side-by-side for a while, and your findings mirror mine.

I found the 1126 to be very wide, with a big bottom and clear top. Ideal for some (I remember Far0n slapping a away through one at a bass bash and it sounded awesome), but not to my taste.

The S112 / S212 rings all my bells, though. They've got the woody mids that I really like, as well as nice, usable lows. Chalk and cheese.

[Muzz]

I think, perhaps, that what you are hearing is the sound of the Streamliner through a flat response cab.

Yup, that was my understanding - it's absolutely no criticism of the BF cabs, I just think the Streamliner needs a 'voiced' cab. Well, for my tone goals, anyway... Edited October 2, 2019 by Dad3353

[mcnach]

Good thread, and it's nice to have so much choice.

I ran the TKS S112 and 1126 side-by-side for a while, and your findings mirror mine.

I found the 1126 to be very wide, with a big bottom and clear top. Ideal for some (I remember Far0n slapping a away through one at a bass bash and it sounded awesome), but not to my taste.

The S112 / S212 rings all my bells, though. They've got the woody mids that I really like, as well as nice, usable lows. Chalk and cheese.

Indeed, slap with the 1126 sounded very very very nice.

I really must try those S112s, everything seems to indicate that I'd like them a lot and would suit me more than the 1126s. I generally end up turning the bass knob down somewhat to get the clarity and definition I like, so the fact that they do not have the big bottom 1126s have might suit me just fine. Sizewise they seem just about perfect for me too. I might just sell the 1126 cabs and get a pair of S112 to see how I get along with them, while keeping the Barefaced cabs for now. That won't do much to my aim of downsizing but it sounds like fun Edited October 2, 2019 by Dad3353

[Muzz]

The S112s were my choice from the TKS lineup: it didn't work out that way for non-musical reasons (I ended up with a pair of Berg AE112s instead), but I'd gone through exactly your reasoning.

[Opticaleye]

I tried the S112's and liked them but didn't think they'd be a good match for my TTE for all styles. I'm hoping that I can get the character and bark from the head .

Hopefully the 1126 will sound good with my EUB as well.

There is a possibility I may buy another too...

[JTUK]

I'd be interested in the rest of your signal chain. I'm not getting a very clear picture of what you are after.

[mcnach]

I'd be interested in the rest of your signal chain. I'm not getting a very clear picture of what you are after.

was that for me or for the previous message about the TTE amp?

anyway, for me... I still haven't moved any of my speakers. I've been moving house, and what with Xmas etc I haven't bothered, although I've got some interested parties in some of them if/when I decide to move them.
What I've just done is say "to hell with it! Let's get a couple of S112s!"... so yup, they've been ordered. It seems I may get lucky as Tommy had some ready to cover in vinyl and they may ship within a couple of days.
It's a rather expensive way to figure out which combination works best for me, but I figured I deserved a Xmas present Edited October 2, 2019 by Dad3353

[Opticaleye]

I would imagine the S112's would be a good match for the Streamliner.

For me the TTE's have a real heft and "valviness" to them and I'm looking for a flatter cab than my NY604 to put this across. The NY604 sounds great with my LM11 but I preferred my previous Markbass Club 112's for the TTE500 looking back.

It was between the 1126 and a Fearless F112 (I believe they use the same driver) and in the end I like the look of the TKS cabs plus I was able try it out. It sounded very flat to me and I should be able to cut frequencies where necessary with my Basswitch.