brensabre79 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='stevie' timestamp='1450270692' post='2931195'] Or that a 1973 Aston Martin V8 could outperform a 2015 VW Up! What a silly idea indeed! [/quote] Yeah that's a silly reply though isn't it Stevie? In that it completely misses both my point and the (becoming elusive) OPs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 It was indeed very silly - but I just did what you did. Wasn't your point that modern cars handle better than 1973 cars (thus demonstrating in some weird way that modern bass cabs are therefore better than older ones)? Otherwise, why bring it up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1450272333' post='2931218'] I have to say, I've never really been sold on any NEO cabs I tried. Doesn't mean I didn't use them at the time...just knew something wasn't quite right. I could list them as there are a good few... but not one did I like. Draw your own conclusions but the one common element was NEO. That is why I feel I can say I don't like NEO. Whether that might change at some point in the future when I hear one, is a maybe. [/quote] The other common element that you may not have considered is that cab manufacturers who use neo speakers always put them in lightweight boxes. There might be one, but I don't know of any commercial neo cab that hasn't got a thinwall or balsawood-type box. I'd like to suggest that what you heard was not so much the sound of neo but rather the sound of insubstantial cabinet walls vibrating. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 As the op is slating multi hundred pound cabs I'm presuming cabs for less than £200 are the ones we should all be using, I'd need at least a good ceramic 4x10 capable of managing 600 watts at four ohms and to be able to produce a clean low B, any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1450275823' post='2931266'] As the op is slating multi hundred pound cabs I'm presuming cabs for less than £200 are the ones we should all be using, I'd need at least a good ceramic 4x10 capable of managing 600 watts at four ohms and to be able to produce a clean low B, any suggestions? [/quote] Our Ampeg 4 x 10, Bassman 2 x 15 and HH 2 x 15 can all, individually, fill any largish venue with good, clean bass from our sixer fretless with a 200w Hiwatt valve amp on tickover. I'm not saying neo, modern cabs are not good (I wouldn't know...), but I'd question why anyone would think that 600w is a requirement. We play modern pop/rock covers in all sorts of venues and have never felt that the bass was lacking, even outdoors. Old, vintage gear is not all rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 What would those cabs cost in today's money though? My 600 watt requirement comes from having a 900 watt head so in a single cab solution that would be the minimum I'd like the cab rated at even when using my ears to check its not ruining It. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Dean Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1450272504' post='2931219'] Good point Kevin, I wonder how much of that is due to the cab or the amp itself. I`d love to hear a full Ampeg valve amp through one of my S12Ts to hear the difference. [/quote] I think it's a bit of both , The ABM 1000 going through the Ampeg 8 x 10 to my ears made sounded a lot better than the SVT , Could go lower & made the speaker struggle when pushed , but that was an extreme setting , but I never got this with the Barefaced , I also have 2 x10 Ashdown Neos they are very good & look cool but are twice as heavy as the barefaced & don't have the depth .. Edited December 16, 2015 by Kevin Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Dunno, but at the time (I was there..!), they would not have been described as 'boutique' at all; simply plain ordinary bass cabs, common as ... well, a very common thing. Definitely not Aston Martins, that's for sure..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='stevie' timestamp='1450274917' post='2931254'] The other common element that you may not have considered is that cab manufacturers who use neo speakers always put them in lightweight boxes. There might be one, but I don't know of any commercial neo cab that hasn't got a thinwall or balsawood-type box. I'd like to suggest that what you heard was not so much the sound of neo but rather the sound of insubstantial cabinet walls vibrating. Just a thought. [/quote] Fair point...but my introduction to NEO's was when I put 2510 deltalites in my Goliath Jnr box...and hated them. I'd looked around to see whether this conversion was common as PAS speakers were like gold dust in the U.K and no one had recone kits either. The conversion WAS common and people said they loved it.... well, I liked the weight save, but sold the boxes asap. So, the box was a decent SWR box..albeit maybe not tuned optimally for the NEO chassis but it wasn't the volume] that was the problem, it w as the sound. Anyway... it wasn't until I used Markbass with NEO that I got the idea that NEO wasn't working....and then onto all the others and same thought that these boxes weren't really happening for my ears. The only NEO cabs I got reasonable comments on were Berg AE112's . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) Looking out for a lightweight practice amp I had a bit of a spree earlier this year and tried out 4 PJB amps which I think you'd call 'boutique'. Build quality - excellent. 1 was ceramic and 3 were neo. Previously I had the notion that neos tended to have a sound that was a bit mid-biased. However, although the Cub and Flightcase sounded sort of gritty to me, the PB300 not so. All three have neo's. The Briefcase, (ceramic), was the warmest and my favourite. All were very high fidelity. My next tryout was a Rumble 40 - incredibly light with great range of tone and plenty of volume - class D. But I've settled on a TCE BG208 for the time being - lightweight, small footprint and effective eq. It may well be class D. I have a different preference for gigging though and my rig has remained the same over several years, Peavey Max160, (class AB SS), into an Ampeg B115E. I enjoy the differences between them and think they both suit their purpose. Edited December 16, 2015 by grandad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japhet Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Reading this thread has made me realise how much I miss lugging 1x15 and 4x10 cabinets about. I feel so inadequate now with my 20kg 2x12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guinness21 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 [quote name='Japhet' timestamp='1450347339' post='2931809'] Reading this thread has made me realise how much I miss lugging 1x15 and 4x10 cabinets about. I feel so inadequate now with my 20kg 2x12. [/quote] What cab do you use Japhet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I guess it's the one in his signature? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I'm still struggling with the definition of 'boutique' - I bought all of my amps second hand - are they still boutique, is it Neo speakers that makes them boutique, or does a badge make them boutique, or is boutique a euphemism for lightweight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japhet Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 [quote name='Guinness21' timestamp='1450348048' post='2931824'] What cab do you use Japhet? [/quote] Techsoundsystems ND 2x12. Must be full of helium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 [quote name='No lust in Jazz' timestamp='1450348935' post='2931839'] I'm still struggling with the definition of 'boutique' - [/quote]Technically, brands not sold by mass marketers, such as Guitar Center in the States, or Thomann in Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 My 2p. I've had many cabs over the years (gigging for 25years and counting), Trace / Laney / H&H / Orange / Peavey / Ashdown / Marshall etc all the usual suspects. I've heard nothing that's as good as my Barefaced super compacts. They are certainly not lacking in heft in any way. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 [quote name='Japhet' timestamp='1450347339' post='2931809'] Reading this thread has made me realise how much I miss lugging 1x15 and 4x10 cabinets about. I feel so inadequate now with my 20kg 2x12. [/quote] Same here. I simply wouldn't lug the 60kg of my old Trace 4x10 combo these days. Simple as that. I'd accept a compromised sound for the convenience of a lighter pack. Fortunately I don't have to, as I now have lighter and better - result! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 [quote name='Alec' timestamp='1450358880' post='2931993'] I'd accept a compromised sound for the convenience of a lighter pack. Fortunately I don't have to, as I now have lighter and better - result! [/quote] This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 [quote name='stevie' timestamp='1450274917' post='2931254'] I don't know of any commercial neo cab that hasn't got a thinwall or balsawood-type box. [/quote] AFAIK epifani use 3/4" poplar ply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdw Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Personally i am fine with neo speakers and find the weight a big plus. Not been impressed with class d amps though and i don't feel my eden wt 400 is heavy or large enough to cause any problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) [quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1450358760' post='2931990'] My 2p. I've had many cabs over the years (gigging for 25years and counting), Trace / Laney / H&H / Orange / Peavey / Ashdown / Marshall etc all the usual suspects. I've heard nothing that's as good as my Barefaced super compacts. They are certainly not lacking in heft in any way. YMMV. [/quote] I feel the same. From the mid 1980s, when I bought my first "proper" bass amplification (Trace Elliot AH250 with 1048 and 1518 cabs - which, interestingly were regarded as pretty "boutique" back then!), through use of Ampeg, Ashdown, Fender, Randall, Orange, Hartke, Gallien Krueger, Aguilar, TKS and a few others I have forgotten about... I have always had what I would think of as a "decent" bass tone. Some better than others to my ears, but all pretty good. Since I first tried a Barefaced Compact, I have owned two Compacts, a Vintage and a Big One. I now use two Berg HS210s - not because I felt that the BFs lacked anything, but simply because the Bergs came up at a time when I was looking at alternatives, and I had always wanted to try some. Amp-wise, I am now using a Markbass LM2. To be honest, I've never noticed a "neo" sound, or the difference between Class D amps and more traditional designs. I've never noticed a lack of "ooomph" or "heft" or whatever it is called. Some amps have lacked midrange control, others have over-compensated with ridiculously complex EQ sections! I think the general quality of bass gear these days is incredibly good, and costs a lot less (in relative terms) than it used to. My old Trace stack cost me over £1300 back in 1986. For that same money [b][i]now[/i][/b] I could buy a really decent rig! It's a great time to be a bass player and all these petty arguments about which is "best" get slightly wearing. If you like it, it's good. Sod what anyone else says! Edited December 17, 2015 by Conan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Definitely no lack of omph from my glock / berg setup... deep, smooth, clear bass from a Class D amp and Neo cab Edited December 17, 2015 by CamdenRob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Cant help but notice that the OP hasn't commented since to explain in any way how he reached his conclusion?? Edited December 17, 2015 by LewisK1975 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Been there, done that, and all those cliches... I currently run a Neo loaded cab (BF S12T) powered by either a GB Shuttle 9.2 or a Alembic F1-x going to a 1000W power amp. Some may call this boutique but my old rig (Trace Elliot GP12 into a 2x10" and a 1x15") probably costs the same amount of money, so that must also be boutique! What about the price of an Ampeg valve amp + 8x10? Isn't it also boutique? Well, all i can say is that i wouldn't change my current setup for anything old and heavy. It's a pain to cart around, the sound isn't clear and defined and it won't go half as loud as what i use now (not that i ever need it to, in fact now a i can play at lower volumes because i have more clarity and cut the mix better). Summing it up, Class-D+Neo for me all day long! [size=3]PS: At least the OP doesn't use a multi-hundred(thousand) pound bass... oh wait!... is that a...[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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