colgraff Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Is the problem that "sloppiness" is a pejorative term?[b] [/b]Santana plays in very free time on occasion, but "sloppiness" would be an excessively harsh judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naetharu Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1450371965' post='2932163'] If you think you can get away with duff notes you have obviously never been in a band where the guitarist has cocked up the intro to Sweet Child. [/quote] And here is a wonderful example of that experience for everyone to enjoy [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcibYABRm9E[/media] [quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1450398235' post='2932506'] Is the problem that "sloppiness" is a pejorative term?[b] [/b]Santana plays in very free time on occasion, but "sloppiness" would be an excessively harsh judgement. [/quote] I guess there is a distinction to be made here: sloppy playing is where one is not in control of the timing and pitches, which is distinct from laid back playing where one [b][i]intentionally [/i][/b]plays with a loose timing to create a certain feel (BB King is another wonderful example of someone who does this - most certainly not sloppy) Edited December 18, 2015 by Naetharu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lo-E Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1450372691' post='2932175']I have on more than one occasion got away with a bit of slop on bass in a live situation.[/quote] I certainly have as well - and still do from time to time, as does most everyone. Even consummate musicians blow a clam every now and then. Perhaps this means bassists can flap as well? Having some reasonable guitar skills, but being a bassist primarily, I tend to admire guitarists who play extremely rhythmic styles. The first person who springs to mind is Nile Rogers. I don't know if I've ever heard him play a sloppy part. Ever. And he's just one example. Musicianship is something posessed by musicians, not instruments, and I don't think any hypothesis that suggests the players of certain instruments have it easier than the players of others can hold much water. To play any instrument extremely well, one has to put in a lot of work even if that instrument is a tambourine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 [quote name='Lo-E' timestamp='1450417673' post='2932546'] I certainly have as well - and still do from time to time, as does most everyone. Even consummate musicians blow a clam every now and then. Perhaps this means bassists can flap as well? Having some reasonable guitar skills, but being a bassist primarily, I tend to admire guitarists who play extremely rhythmic styles. The first person who springs to mind is Nile Rogers. I don't know if I've ever heard him play a sloppy part. Ever. And he's just one example. Musicianship is something posessed by musicians, not instruments, and I don't think any hypothesis that suggests the players of certain instruments have it easier than the players of others can hold much water. To play any instrument extremely well, one has to put in a lot of work even if that instrument is a tambourine. [/quote] Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicko Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 [quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1450398333' post='2932507'] And here is a wonderful example of that experience for everyone to enjoy [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcibYABRm9E[/media] [/quote] To be fair, the bass player is not really making a case for bass being harder! Why would anyone put something that bad on yootoob? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japhet Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 [quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1450398235' post='2932506'] Is the problem that "sloppiness" is a pejorative term?[b] [/b]Santana plays in very free time on occasion, but "sloppiness" would be an excessively harsh judgement. [/quote] Same goes for one of my all time favorite guitarists Robin Trower. His style and sound are, in my experience, completely unique and what some would perceive as 'sloppiness' is actually a very refined style which gives bags of character to his playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 It helps if your drummer can keep time. Accelerating rolls so that we always get to the 1 a fraction early often makes the bass sound sloppy - it's not as predictable as it sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 No, I did not cock-up, I was... [quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1450378868' post='2932266'] ...playing colourful non root notes on a bass!! [/quote] Straight to the top of my excuses list for a while! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r16ktx Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 [quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1450456022' post='2933045'] It helps if your drummer can keep time. Accelerating rolls so that we always get to the 1 a fraction early often makes the bass sound sloppy - it's not as predictable as it sounds. [/quote] "accelerando"; the drummers equivalent of "colourful non root notes"? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethFlatlands Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 I don't play wrong notes, I was just "experimenting with dissonance". It's not my fault the rest of the band chose to play it safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameltoe Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Japhet' timestamp='1450454262' post='2933015'] Same goes for one of my all time favorite guitarists Robin Trower. His style and sound are, in my experience, completely unique and what some would perceive as 'sloppiness' is actually a very refined style which gives bags of character to his playing. [/quote] See, now you've mentioned Robin Trower I'm going to have to post this! http://youtu.be/owtMj0g8tys He absolutely rips. And when did you last see a drum solo on prime time British TV? (not including some little scroat showing off on Britain's got talent) Some of the best 'solo faces' you will ever see too. Edited December 19, 2015 by cameltoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Was les Dawson a bass player also? Sometimes I think we must be related . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 [quote name='Norris' timestamp='1450362362' post='2932046'] On a guitar the right note is just a bend away from the wrong one. On a bass it's already too late [/quote] Why do you think I play fretless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomBass Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 [quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1450366609' post='2932097'] Liking that. I might steal that paragraph for future use [/quote] Ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 110 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 [quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' timestamp='1450524314' post='2933560'] Was les Dawson a bass player also? Sometimes I think we must be related . [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfretrock Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 [quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' timestamp='1450524314' post='2933560'] Was les Dawson a bass player also? Sometimes I think we must be related . [/quote] Les Dawson was actually a talented pianist. I read something his wife wrote, he would go into his study and play classical pieces, then he'd play jazz piano and when he started fooling around with off key notes, she knew his session was about to end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rungles Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 As an ex-guitarist I totally agree. I'm not a guitarist who plays a bit of bass or a failed guitarist - I made the concious decision to change and I am a bass player! I've gone to great lengths to craft my playing style and my sound - to the point where people seem to have forgotten I was ever a guitarist! (I live on the Isle of Wight which is quite a close-knit musical community). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naetharu Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) [quote name='rungles' timestamp='1450776263' post='2935656'] ... (I live on the Isle of Wight which is quite a close-knit musical community). [/quote] Quite an elite one mind given it includes Mark King! Edited December 22, 2015 by Naetharu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntLockyer Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 [quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1450456022' post='2933045'] It helps if your drummer can keep time. Accelerating rolls so that we always get to the 1 a fraction early often makes the bass sound sloppy - it's not as predictable as it sounds. [/quote] I play with a lot of different guys and find myself using my eyes as much as my ears sometimes, seeing the stick about to hit the 4 in a fill really helps keep it together. so many times we've heard compliments about how tight the rhythm section were, yet we were only tight to each other, if you put a click to it you'd see how far out of time we really were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 [quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1450786917' post='2935840']so many times we've heard compliments about how tight the rhythm section were, yet we were only tight to each other, if you put a click to it you'd see how far out of time we really were.[/quote] That's what's really important live though. Nice if things don't speed up or drag but a little movement in the tempo isn't that bad if the band are on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) [quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1450786917' post='2935840'] I play with a lot of different guys and find myself using my eyes as much as my ears sometimes, seeing the stick about to hit the 4 in a fill really helps keep it together. so many times we've heard compliments about how tight the rhythm section were, yet we were only tight to each other, if you put a click to it you'd see how far out of time we really were. [/quote] Oh yes - i do the same - I guess that's why I find playing live so much easier than recording It's a far bigger problem for guitar, mind, as delays form a huge part of our sound,,,there's nothing worse than a delay that drifts out of time/ Drummer refuses to use a click and we don't use midi triggerable delays. Edited December 23, 2015 by Twigman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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