Bass - harder than it sounds.

[colgraff]

Is the problem that "sloppiness" is a pejorative term?[b] ​[/b]​Santana plays in very free time on occasion, but "sloppiness" would be an excessively harsh judgement.

[Naetharu]

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1450371965' post='2932163']
If you think you can get away with duff notes you have obviously never been in a band where the guitarist has cocked up the intro to Sweet Child.
[/quote]

And here is a wonderful example of that experience for everyone to enjoy

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcibYABRm9E[/media]


[quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1450398235' post='2932506']
Is the problem that "sloppiness" is a pejorative term?[b] ​[/b]​Santana plays in very free time on occasion, but "sloppiness" would be an excessively harsh judgement.
[/quote]

I guess there is a distinction to be made here: sloppy playing is where one is not in control of the timing and pitches, which is distinct from laid back playing where one [b][i]intentionally [/i][/b]plays with a loose timing to create a certain feel (BB King is another wonderful example of someone who does this - most certainly not sloppy)

Edited December 18, 2015 by Naetharu

[Lo-E]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1450372691' post='2932175']I have on more than one occasion got away with a bit of slop on bass in a live situation.[/quote]
I certainly have as well - and still do from time to time, as does most everyone. Even consummate musicians blow a clam every now and then.

Perhaps this means bassists can flap as well?

Having some reasonable guitar skills, but being a bassist primarily, I tend to admire guitarists who play extremely rhythmic styles. The first person who springs to mind is Nile Rogers. I don't know if I've ever heard him play a sloppy part. Ever. And he's just one example.

Musicianship is something posessed by musicians, not instruments, and I don't think any hypothesis that suggests the players of certain instruments have it easier than the players of others can hold much water. To play any instrument extremely well, one has to put in a lot of work even if that instrument is a tambourine.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Lo-E' timestamp='1450417673' post='2932546']
I certainly have as well - and still do from time to time, as does most everyone. Even consummate musicians blow a clam every now and then.

Perhaps this means bassists can flap as well?

Having some reasonable guitar skills, but being a bassist primarily, I tend to admire guitarists who play extremely rhythmic styles. The first person who springs to mind is Nile Rogers. I don't know if I've ever heard him play a sloppy part. Ever. And he's just one example.

Musicianship is something posessed by musicians, not instruments, and I don't think any hypothesis that suggests the players of certain instruments have it easier than the players of others can hold much water. To play any instrument extremely well, one has to put in a lot of work even if that instrument is a tambourine.
[/quote]

Agreed.

[Nicko]

[quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1450398333' post='2932507']
And here is a wonderful example of that experience for everyone to enjoy

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcibYABRm9E[/media]

[/quote]

To be fair, the bass player is not really making a case for bass being harder! Why would anyone put something that bad on yootoob?

[Japhet]

[quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1450398235' post='2932506']
Is the problem that "sloppiness" is a pejorative term?[b] ​[/b]​Santana plays in very free time on occasion, but "sloppiness" would be an excessively harsh judgement.
[/quote]



Same goes for one of my all time favorite guitarists Robin Trower. His style and sound are, in my experience, completely unique and what some would perceive as 'sloppiness' is actually a very refined style which gives bags of character to his playing.

[Twigman]

It helps if your drummer can keep time.
Accelerating rolls so that we always get to the 1 a fraction early often makes the bass sound sloppy - it's not as predictable as it sounds.

[Vinny]

No, I did not cock-up, I was...

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1450378868' post='2932266']
...playing colourful non root notes on a bass!!
[/quote]

Straight to the top of my excuses list for a while!

[r16ktx]

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1450456022' post='2933045']
It helps if your drummer can keep time.
Accelerating rolls so that we always get to the 1 a fraction early often makes the bass sound sloppy - it's not as predictable as it sounds.
[/quote]

"accelerando"; the drummers equivalent of "colourful non root notes"? :-)

[GarethFlatlands]

I don't play wrong notes, I was just "experimenting with dissonance". It's not my fault the rest of the band chose to play it safe.

[cameltoe]

[quote name='Japhet' timestamp='1450454262' post='2933015']




Same goes for one of my all time favorite guitarists Robin Trower. His style and sound are, in my experience, completely unique and what some would perceive as 'sloppiness' is actually a very refined style which gives bags of character to his playing.
[/quote]

See, now you've mentioned Robin Trower I'm going to have to post this!

http://youtu.be/owtMj0g8tys

He absolutely rips. And when did you last see a drum solo on prime time British TV? (not including some little scroat showing off on Britain's got talent)

Some of the best 'solo faces' you will ever see too.

Edited December 19, 2015 by cameltoe

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Was les Dawson a bass player also?
Sometimes I think we must be related .

[tauzero]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1450362362' post='2932046']
On a guitar the right note is just a bend away from the wrong one. On a bass it's already too late
[/quote]

Why do you think I play fretless?

[RandomBass]

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1450366609' post='2932097']
Liking that. I might steal that paragraph for future use
[/quote]
Ditto

[mike 110]

[quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' timestamp='1450524314' post='2933560']
Was les Dawson a bass player also?
Sometimes I think we must be related .
[/quote]

[pfretrock]

[quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' timestamp='1450524314' post='2933560']
Was les Dawson a bass player also?
Sometimes I think we must be related .
[/quote]
Les Dawson was actually a talented pianist. I read something his wife wrote, he would go into his study and play classical pieces, then he'd play jazz piano and when he started fooling around with off key notes, she knew his session was about to end.

[rungles]

As an ex-guitarist I totally agree. I'm not a guitarist who plays a bit of bass or a failed guitarist - I made the concious decision to change and I am a bass player!

I've gone to great lengths to craft my playing style and my sound - to the point where people seem to have forgotten I was ever a guitarist! (I live on the Isle of Wight which is quite a close-knit musical community).

[Naetharu]

[quote name='rungles' timestamp='1450776263' post='2935656']
... (I live on the Isle of Wight which is quite a close-knit musical community).
[/quote]

Quite an elite one mind given it includes Mark King!

Edited December 22, 2015 by Naetharu

[AntLockyer]

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1450456022' post='2933045']
It helps if your drummer can keep time.
Accelerating rolls so that we always get to the 1 a fraction early often makes the bass sound sloppy - it's not as predictable as it sounds.
[/quote]

I play with a lot of different guys and find myself using my eyes as much as my ears sometimes, seeing the stick about to hit the 4 in a fill really helps keep it together.

so many times we've heard compliments about how tight the rhythm section were, yet we were only tight to each other, if you put a click to it you'd see how far out of time we really were.

[Iain]

[quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1450786917' post='2935840']so many times we've heard compliments about how tight the rhythm section were, yet we were only tight to each other, if you put a click to it you'd see how far out of time we really were.[/quote]

That's what's really important live though. Nice if things don't speed up or drag but a little movement in the tempo isn't that bad if the band are on it.

[Twigman]

[quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1450786917' post='2935840']
I play with a lot of different guys and find myself using my eyes as much as my ears sometimes, seeing the stick about to hit the 4 in a fill really helps keep it together.

so many times we've heard compliments about how tight the rhythm section were, yet we were only tight to each other, if you put a click to it you'd see how far out of time we really were.
[/quote]

Oh yes - i do the same - I guess that's why I find playing live so much easier than recording


It's a far bigger problem for guitar, mind, as delays form a huge part of our sound,,,there's nothing worse than a delay that drifts out of time/
Drummer refuses to use a click and we don't use midi triggerable delays.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Twigman