Geezers early tone

[bonzodog]

In the new year I want to try and develop my tone more and thinking of picking up some new gear if need be.
If I had to pick my ideal bass tone then it would be Geezer Butlers from the first couple of Sabbath albums. Evil Woman being the perfect song where the bass to me is as good as it gets.
Im hopeless at recognising how to achieve a tone so are there any Geezer fans out there who can tell me what he did to get that amazing sound.
Bass / amp / EQ / strings / technique ?

Thanks in advance

[Dave Vader]

Precision, Ampeg, Flats, Loud, play up by the neck and clank it. Also massively drop tuned to match Iommi's guitar.
I'm sure more knowledgeable folks will come in now, but that's most of it I think.

[RhysP]

I thought he was using Laney amps back then.
He also used a Dan Armstrong Plexiglass bass &, I think, a Gibson EB bass of some description.
I thought he used Picato roundwounds too.

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

I thought it was down to a wah, and fuzz.
I stand to be corrected of course
There weren't many bass effects back in the day , were there?

Just realised , I was thinking of the n I b solo, instead of his usual stuff. Doh;)

Edited December 23, 2015 by RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE

[EliasMooseblaster]

Early video footage suggests a P bass, and a right-hand position over the top of the neck. I have heard talk of knackered rounds being used (though flats would probably do the trick), and I believe Laney were Sabbath's amps of choice, being built in the local area as they were.

[Doctor J]

Get a Precision and play with your thumb anchored on the arse of the neck with some treble rolled off. Keep the EQ on the amp reasonably flat.

Most of it will be in your right hand technique.

[chriswareham]

My band's last recording was intended to have that early 70s heavy rock tone, with Sabbath as the obvious comparison. I managed it with a short scale Gibson EB-0 copy, flawound strings drop tuned and an overdriven valve head into an Ampeg fridge.

[BottomE]

At a Basschat gathering in the south west a few years back we had a nice fella come along who had played with Sabbath. During initial soundchecks the band had a problem with his bass sound which he thought was great. He couldn't work out what they didn't like. It wasn't until he turned it up, started distorting and making what was (in his eyes) an awful sound did the rest of the band give him the thumbs up!

[thodrik]

Fender Precision, valve amp, play loud. Tuning to C sharp standard is optional but helps.

[LayDownThaFunk]

Precision, fresh strings, good output pup, valve head and a big cab.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

From the man himself:


"When we recorded Black Sabbath, I had a 70-watt Laney guitar amp and a Park 4x12 cabinet with only three speakers in it—and two of them were wrecked! That’s how I got that really distorted sound. Actually, I hated the tone of that record at the time, but I’ve gotten used to it now. It’s nostalgic. I didn’t have any alternative; I couldn’t afford to buy new speakers. We had only two days to record, so we just plugged in and performed our live set in the studio. We were allowed one take for each song and stopped only if someone made a horrible mistake. It was out of our hands. No time to dial in the perfect bass tone."

From experience the key to that sound is a P bass played hard over the neck, similar to early Entwistle. Get those strings bouncing off the neck.

[dannybuoy]

Apart from playing through a knackered amp, the other way to get there is to use an overdrive pedal. The best thing I have come across for early Geezer tone is the Xotic Bass BB Preamp, which is very touch sensitive and expressive to play through. I hear the Digitech Hardwire CM-2 is in the same ballpark though and can be had for £44 delivered!

http://www.dv247.com/guitars/digitech-hardwire-cm-2-tube-overdrive-pedal--49103

[blue]

It's all in your fingers and how much you invest in the craft.

It has little to do with gear. Scott's Bass Lessons has a short clip on this subject.

Blue

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1450882875' post='2936687']
At a Basschat gathering in the south west a few years back we had a nice fella come along who had played with Sabbath.
[/quote]

Joe Burt?

[Lw.]

As others have said; remember at the time there wasn't a great amount of pedals and effects available for bass so the signal path will have been relatively simple. Meaning this isnt something you can spend your way through.

Bass -> pushed amp -> cab will do the job. I would have said P bass but in all honesty I bet geezer could get the tone out of almost any bass, so everyone else should be able to too.

[bonzodog]

Cool...thanks guys.
Yes I've seen footage of him playing over the neck with his P bass. Very similar technique to Noel Redding from JHE who also had a great tone.
I'm only playing a JHS Vintage P Bass with flats so may look at upgrading that or at least the pups.

Edited December 24, 2015 by bonzodog

[Dave Vader]

told you there'd be more knowledgeable peeps than me along.

[stuckinthepod]

A big Geezer fan here, most of the important stuff has been mentioned here already. Watch his fingers in some of the live videos, he has a pronounced attack with his finger style- so there is a lot clank and bounce of the strings of the neck. You hear a lot of the wood and frets in his early bass tone. Play pretty aggressively over the 20th fret and experiment. I've noticed he doesn't play over the neck anymore however.

This is a great instructional video for obtaining geezer playing style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJW6Rw8rudI

This is quite useful
See here for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMVEQkh00ds of how he plays nowadays. Still aggressive but right hand situated over the P pickup or nearer the bridge.

[Signal Path]

Check out the Mr Black Ltd OD pedal
Have a listen to the sound clips on they're site

[BottomE]

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1450912295' post='2937069']
Joe Burt?
[/quote]
Yes, thats the fella.

[bonzodog]

Thanks for the tips so far everyone.
Never tire of listening to those early albums. Just my opinion but I don't think the production of the albums Master of Reality onwards came close to the first two albums. Shame as there are some great songs on them , especially on Volume 4

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1452280097' post='2948534']
Yes, thats the fella.
[/quote]

yeh, nice guy, lives round here, in fact his wife got us the first gig at our favourite pub and they popped along.

[Graham]

Thanks for that Meddle - that ties up more with what my ears were hearing

[fleabag]

Butler also used Orange amps / cabs and did so all the way through this live performance in 1970

Its more obvious from 7.00 minutes onwards

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbE4ntDLGdo[/media]

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='fleabag' timestamp='1452354889' post='2949212']
Butler also used Orange amps / cabs and did so all the way through this live performance in 1970

Its more obvious from 7.00 minutes onwards
[/quote]

AFAIK pretty much everyone who did a Beat Club session played through Orange amps as they were the house gear and not many bands would transport their full backline to Germany for a TV show. There are some excellent Beat Club performances from quite a few bands up on youtube - it would be great if somebody put a DVD box set together.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Beer of the Bass