Considering my home stereo as my studio monitor

[Behlmene]

Seems anything I've recorded using my "regular" studio monitors sounds starkly different when I play it on my home or car stereo. Mainly, I get a loss of mid range and bottom end. What if I used my home stereo as as my studio monitors? I tried it. It works pretty well. I get to hear what my recording sounds like through a typical standard sound system.

Has anyone else tried this? Thoughts?

[moonbass]

What studio monitors do you use? And how/where do you have them set up? I used to use my hifi before I could afford decent studio monitors, and the results were fine, but good monitors well set up, and ones that you know how they relate to the finished product are better. You do have to reference the finished product on various systems (hifi, car stereo, iphone etc) and this might be the phenomenon you are referring to. I have to say, I increasingly use decent headphones for mixing now for convenience though.

[Leonard Smalls]

It depends entirely on how your stereo is "voiced"...
Most speakers, and even some amplifiers, don't have a flat frequency response as they're meant to sound "nice", or to make up for other shortcomings.
So in practice they'd tend to have a hump in the 50-100Hz range to make them sound more bassy, and some now have a hump above 10KHz in order to make them sound more "hifi".
So using your hifi for monitoring is perfectly possible, so long as you're aware of what the relative sound of your stereo is.
I use my stereo for monitoring, but the amp's a Bryston (like the BBC use at Maida Vale) and the speakers are Leema - built by an ex-BBC sound mixer who also used to work at Air Studios and are designed to be pretty well flat from around 30Hz to 20kHz... However, it doesn't mean my mixes are any good - it's all down to practice and having a better ear than mine!

[Behlmene]

[quote name='moonbass' timestamp='1451025780' post='2937885']
What studio monitors do you use? And how/where do you have them set up? I used to use my hifi before I could afford decent studio monitors, and the results were fine, but good monitors well set up, and ones that you know how they relate to the finished product are better. You do have to reference the finished product on various systems (hifi, car stereo, iphone etc) and this might be the phenomenon you are referring to. I have to say, I increasingly use decent headphones for mixing now for convenience though.
[/quote]

I guess my monitors are pretty low end (Alesis Elevate 3). That probably has a lot to do with it. I do record with headphones too but I find my ears ringing sometimes after sessions. I have a tendency to creep the volume with phones.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Behlmene

[Behlmene]

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1451036076' post='2937918']
It depends entirely on how your stereo is "voiced"...
Most speakers, and even some amplifiers, don't have a flat frequency response as they're meant to sound "nice", or to make up for other shortcomings.
So in practice they'd tend to have a hump in the 50-100Hz range to make them sound more bassy, and some now have a hump above 10KHz in order to make them sound more "hifi".
So using your hifi for monitoring is perfectly possible, so long as you're aware of what the relative sound of your stereo is.
I use my stereo for monitoring, but the amp's a Bryston (like the BBC use at Maida Vale) and the speakers are Leema - built by an ex-BBC sound mixer who also used to work at Air Studios and are designed to be pretty well flat from around 30Hz to 20kHz... However, it doesn't mean my mixes are any good - it's all down to practice and having a better ear than mine!
[/quote]

Informative post. Thanks. But I've got to ask...if stereos add "nice bumps" why bother with flat studio monitors which won't represent the end product?

[Drax]

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1451036076' post='2937918']
...using your hifi for monitoring is perfectly possible, so long as you're aware of what the relative sound of your stereo is.
[/quote]

That's the message. It's all about understanding the relativity.

I mainly use NS10s - which are pretty raw and nasty, and took some getting used to - but you know if you get it sounding good on them (esp the bass), it will sound good most places.

Getting a track sounding 'good' on biased monitors confuses the picture, and IMHO makes it much harder to understand the mix. Different stereos will boost differently, and once you start compressing into MP3 / pressing to vinyl / etc - the shortcomings come through.

There are people using very coloured monitors and making it work - but if you're starting from scratch it's a tougher gig to get right.

Also really don't underestimate the role of paying for proper mastering. No matter how good your studio set up is, you can really only take the track so far (and one benefit is it will help fill out the bottom / mid you're finding lacking currently). If you're serious about the tune, it's worth every penny.

(repeatedly edited through a boxing day hangover.. )

Edited December 26, 2015 by Drax

[lowdown]

Room acoustics play a big part also.

[Behlmene]

[quote name='Drax' timestamp='1451116221' post='2938323']
That's the message. It's all about understanding the relativity.

I mainly use NS10s - which are pretty raw and nasty, and took some getting used to - but you know if you get it sounding good on them (esp the bass), it will sound good most places.

Getting a track sounding 'good' on biased monitors confuses the picture, and IMHO makes it much harder to understand the mix. Different stereos will boost differently, and once you start compressing into MP3 / pressing to vinyl / etc - the shortcomings come through.

There are people using very coloured monitors and making it work - but if you're starting from scratch it's a tougher gig to get right.

Also really don't underestimate the role of paying for proper mastering. No matter how good your studio set up is, you can really only take the track so far (and one benefit is it will help fill out the bottom / mid you're finding lacking currently). If you're serious about the tune, it's worth every penny.

(repeatedly edited through a boxing day hangover.. )
[/quote]

Sheesh - that whole post went over my head! I'd ask you to explain it in layman's terms but I'm afraid I still wouldn't understand it!

[moonbass]

It's a weird world! NS10s are a type of monitor speaker that have been considered a standard in mixing for many many years despite being widely considered to sound horrible! The reasoning being that if you can make a track sound good on them then it will sound good anywhere. (The other reason is that they were so widely used that mixers knew what they would sound like.) They're not made anymore but the principle still remains that it's usually best to mix in a very flat or even harsh environment which will encourage you to add excitement or smoothness to the mix. A good example of this would be mixing at quite low volumes. If you mix at high volume you can be fooled into thinking your mix sounds better than it actually does due to the automatic 'smiley face' eq that your ears perceive at higher volumes. I think another area frequently overlooked in home studios is the bass response of monitors. Certainly in my room I tend to end up overdoing the bass as I don't have a sub, and then when I play a mix in the car the bass is overwhelming.

[Drax]

[quote name='Behlmene' timestamp='1451186499' post='2938744']


Sheesh - that whole post went over my head! I'd ask you to explain it in layman's terms but I'm afraid I still wouldn't understand it!
[/quote]

Ah crap. That really wasn't my intention, apologies.
Well there's no such thing as a bad question and I'll bet whatever you'll ask I've asked before
Happy to field anything on PM

Edited December 27, 2015 by Drax

[lurksalot]

everyone hears the music their own way and learning how to listen to it is probably the biggest trick.
being able to 'reference' your work, to compare it with something of a similar genre that you think sounds good, on the same sound system, will will supply loads of clues as to the overall sound , the balance of tone across the entire frequency range, volume , clarity of individual instruments etc .
I think this gives me the best clues to my own production , that doesn't actually mean they are any good of course , but it gives me a comparison so that I know that they are at least listenable to a degree.

[project_c]

I used to have this problem with my monitors, I could not get a good mix when using them. I just knew the sound of my hifi speakers so well that I preferred listening through them, or through headphones. Friends with studios used to tell me to keep both sets of speakers plugged in, and use the hifi to test the mix regularly, and also to give your ears a refresh by switching between them a lot. You get used to monitors after a while, but you need to work with them for quite a long time to get to know what's going on, so having your normal speakers nearby as constant reference will help.

[RockfordStone]

i used to have an issue where by my recordings would song boomy on my hifi and in the car, but over time i got used to which frequencies were causing the issue and i now know where to compensate to make the mix sound balanced on external sources.

unless you have a perfectly balanced set of monitors and perfectly treated room you will never get perfection straight off the bat. you need to get used to your room and set up and compensate in the areas that are lacking.

also, if you mix for long periods your ears will get fatigued, so what sounds ok to you may sound like arse just beacause you have got used to it. stepping away from time to time for a cup of tea in another room of the house can make a massive difference.

[Behlmene]

[quote name='Drax' timestamp='1451208801' post='2938753']
Ah crap. That really wasn't my intention, apologies.
Well there's no such thing as a bad question and I'll bet whatever you'll ask I've asked before
Happy to field anything on PM
[/quote]

No fault to you, I'm just a little thick . Comes with being American, I suppose .

[Behlmene]

[quote name='project_c' timestamp='1451214068' post='2938792']
I used to have this problem with my monitors, I could not get a good mix when using them. I just knew the sound of my hifi speakers so well that I preferred listening through them, or through headphones. Friends with studios used to tell me to keep both sets of speakers plugged in, and use the hifi to test the mix regularly, and also to give your ears a refresh by switching between them a lot. You get used to monitors after a while, but you need to work with them for quite a long time to get to know what's going on, so having your normal speakers nearby as constant reference will help.
[/quote]

I think that's a great idea. Using both the studio monitors and the the hi-fi as well. Good tip.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Behlmene

[Behlmene]

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1451223006' post='2938877']
i used to have an issue where by my recordings would song boomy on my hifi and in the car, but over time i got used to which frequencies were causing the issue and i now know where to compensate to make the mix sound balanced on external sources.

unless you have a perfectly balanced set of monitors and perfectly treated room you will never get perfection straight off the bat. you need to get used to your room and set up and compensate in the areas that are lacking.

also, if you mix for long periods your ears will get fatigued, so what sounds ok to you may sound like arse just beacause you have got used to it. stepping away from time to time for a cup of tea in another room of the house can make a massive difference.
[/quote]

Yes, getting used to the sound, I do do that. I think it does help sometimes to put it on a shelf and clear yourself of it. I'm often surprised at how different it sounds after picking it back up.

[gjones]

[quote name='Behlmene' timestamp='1451011216' post='2937873']
Seems anything I've recorded using my "regular" studio monitors sounds starkly different when I play it on my home or car stereo. Mainly, I get a loss of mid range and bottom end. What if I used my home stereo as as my studio monitors? I tried it. It works pretty well. I get to hear what my recording sounds like through a typical standard sound system.

Has anyone else tried this? Thoughts?
[/quote]

In decent recording studios, they always have a set of standard hi fi speakers, that they can play the final mix through. After all, that's what most people will be listening to the recording on.

[Behlmene]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1451297686' post='2939313']
In decent recording studios, they always have a set of standard hi fi speakers, that they can play the final mix through. After all, that's what most people will be listening to the recording on.
[/quote]

So it's done by the pros. I may be on the right track.

[Skol303]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1451297686' post='2939313']
In decent recording studios, they always have a set of standard hi fi speakers, that they can play the final mix through. After all, that's what most people will be listening to the recording on.
[/quote]

Not any more. These days, the vast majority of people listen to music using headphones or ear buds, but the point you're making is spot on - i.e. it's important to check how well your mixes translate on systems other than studio monitors (which most people certainly DON'T listen to music on).

I spent ages mixing with just headphones and managed ok. It wasn't ideal, but after a while (a year or so) I got used to it and most importantly - I got to know the characteristics of my headphones, so I could do my best to compensate in my mixes.

I've also mixed using hi-fi speakers. Again, not ideal as they 'coloured' the sound significantly. But over time I got to learn how they coloured the sound, so again, I could compensate.

A good pair of flat, non-attenuated speakers are always going to be the best option because they remove for need for such guesswork. But hi-fi speakers are better than no speakers at all, providing you're aware of their limitations and don't use them solely for making mixing decisions.

All that said, if your room has no acoustic treatment then you're pretty much 'peeing into the wind' whatever speakers you choose, as the room will colour the sound more than anything else. I think the golden rule is to spend at least as much money on acoustic treatment as you do on monitors.

So yeah. It's a money pit!

Edited December 29, 2015 by Skol303