Design flaws in your favourite basses

[cameltoe]

A personal thing, but I always find the pickup placement to be a deal breaker on Stingrays. Too far back to be comfortable playing finger style!

The neck-off truss adjust on a fender is a ball ache, but I kind of like it. Feels traditional. None of this new-fangled Allen key nonsense.

Also, I love the way chrome covers look on a P Bass. Just incredible. Makes them absolutely impossible to play of course, and hence they are always taken off, but they look cool for photos. If fender can sort that and allow me to still play my bass with them fitted, i'd be grateful.

[Mudpup]

Theres a couple of things on a MusicMan bass that should be industry standard......

1 - The little wheel truss rod adjuster - simply brilliant idea, no allen key to lose
2 - Tool free pop out battery box

In fact, you should be able to make a tool free bass really shouldn't you? The two things above, a velcro attached scratch plate (no 13 screws on a precision to undo), mini thumbwheel intonation screws at the bridge, thumbwheel pick up height screws.....

[gs_triumph]

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1451563032' post='2941528']
Oh, where to start?

Any 2-pickup bass with Les Paul wiring. What the hell do you need a selector switch for when you can blend & mute with the volumes?

Or: any bass with two volumes rather than a volume & a pan.

Or even worse - a 2 pickup bass with a poxy selector switch and only one volume & tone! That's right, Ibanez RS924 - I'm looking at you. Ever wonder why you don't get gigged any more? Aside from weighing about 30 kilos?

Which leads neatly to: Any bass that you need a back brace/intensive care after wearing for more than 15 minutes. Bye bye, Peavey T-40, and take your pointless selector switch & stupid fiddly controls with you.

Any bass with a bridge that does not offer proper height & intonation adjustment. Double points if that bass costs more than a decent used car and the bridge bends in half within a year. Mr Hall.

Any bass with Precision type pickups fitted with the E/A half towards the neck. Sorry Leo, that's the wrong way around if you want a more balanced string response.

Any bass with twin coil pickups that do not have phase or single coil switching. Clear off & come back when you have a bit of tonal variety.

Any bass with a symmetrical double cut body. You will be staying on the wall, looking pretty rather than having your neck supported by my left arm, because you presumably think it has nothing better to be doing.

I'll probably think of a few more, in a bit...

Jon.
[/quote]

Feeling better now? 😏

[3below]

[list]
[*]Neck dive - on any bass
[*]Some Fender P basses, G&L basses and accurate copies - E string is not straight pull to the machine head. My G&L has the 'offset' E string angle. A quick Google images will give plenty of examples. Why? Is there an engineering reason or was it just mis-measurement / accuracy in the 1950s that is perpetuated.
[*]Dead notes / super resonant notes
[/list]

Edited December 31, 2015 by 3below

[thodrik]

[quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1451586750' post='2941720']
So you have a bass which is "ok and usable" at best?!

Why not buy something that you like?
[/quote]

Because it is cool and I like it!

[Vinny]

Scratchplates in general - do any of them protect the finish where you actually use a pick? Yet many 'plate-free basses can look too slabby. Fussy git!

Saddle screws digging in and/or madly uncomfortable bridges make me quite shouty.

Surely it aten't beyond the realms of machining technology to make a truss-rod changeable without major surgery?

I have never owned or played an expensive instrument, though. All the basses I've ever owned must have been utter crap as none of them made me play like Jamerson.

[JTUK]

A trust rod tweak on a Vintage instrument is a 10 min job...by the time you've taken the scratch plate off (should you need to do this)
you've had the neck off, IMO.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Vinny' timestamp='1451643492' post='2941960']
Surely it aten't beyond the realms of machining technology to make a truss-rod changeable without major surgery?
[/quote]

This. I was having the exact same thought only this morning.

J.

[Billy Apple]

You don't need to take the neck off to adjust a heel truss rod. Just loosen the screws off enough to angle the nut out the pocket.

[GrammeFriday]

Sticking to the OP’s question (which was about design flaws in our [i][b]favourite[/b][/i] basses, not about what we consider to be design flaws in basses in general), two immediately spring to mind for me:

1. As others have already noted, pickup placement on the Precision is the wrong way round. It should be nearer the neck under the D and G strings.

Solution:

[url="http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/grammefriday/media/Sandberg%20VM5/photo_zpslla6q7ik.jpg.html"][/url]

Sandberg do ‘reverse P’ placement as standard.


2. The G string on the Stingray 5 is too close to the edge of the fretboard. No, Stingray Fanboys, there is nothing wrong with my technique - it is a design flaw in the bass.

Solution:

[url="http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/grammefriday/media/Sandberg%20VM5/photo_zpslla6q7ik.jpg.html"][/url]

OK, it doesn’t sound exactly like a Ray, but it’s close enough for me, and the G string stays firmly on the fingerboard at all times.

[ezbass]

As my favourite current bass is a Ricky, I'm not going to list it's shortcomings design-wise as I'll start to question why I like it so much

[Truckstop]

[quote name='thodrik' timestamp='1451616597' post='2941897']


Because it is cool and I like it!
[/quote]

Well that's fair enough!

[PaulWarning]

never really thought about the P having the pick ups 'the wrong way round', I'm sure Leo had his reasons and it isn't something he did accidentally, seems to work ok, it is the best selling bass, in the world.

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1451676395' post='2942396']
never really thought about the P having the pick ups 'the wrong way round', I'm sure Leo had his reasons and it isn't something he did accidentally, seems to work ok, it is the best selling bass, in the world.
[/quote]
It is that, and I certainly wouldn't say the original configuration sounded bad. Mainly I just imagine it would be nice to have a bit more growl on the lower notes, and a slightly more rounded tone on the higher ones. I've never actually tried one with a reversed pickup, but I gather that Hoppus bass was very well-received at a bass bash recently.

[pfretrock]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1451508021' post='2941145']
For me with the Precision I still don`t understand why the pickup is nearer the bridge under the thinner strings - it would make so much more sense to me to have this the other way round, as per the Mark Hoppus Sig model, getting a bassier response from them.
[/quote]
Does no one market 'reversed' pickguards? Easy enough to route out the body - if you make a mess its hidden.

[alyctes]

Kramer the Duke... Great tone, but oh dear.

- Temperature-sensitive neck. It's aluminium; it changes length with temperature. So it goes out of tune, quickly.

- The bridge... it's a BBOT with the strings run through it at an angle. That means that if you put roundwounds on it, the E-string can't be tuned correctly, because the winding of the string catches on the edge of the bridge.

Edited January 1, 2016 by alyctes

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1451680661' post='2942472']
It is that, and I certainly wouldn't say the original configuration sounded bad. Mainly I just imagine it would be nice to have a bit more growl on the lower notes, and a slightly more rounded tone on the higher ones. I've never actually tried one with a reversed pickup, but I gather that Hoppus bass was very well-received at a bass bash recently.
[/quote]one answer would be to use a left handed P flip it and change the strings round, or, being a lefty myself I'm sure the reverse has been done numerous times, has anybody noticed the effect, if any, it has?

[dannybuoy]

[quote name='cocco' timestamp='1451561242' post='2941504']
Neckdive on every jazz bass I've ever played while sitting down. Drives me up the wall.
[/quote]

I have just run into this one too. No problem with my P, BB, or Sandberg Basic, but the Jazz I acquired recently just gave me pain in my right hand from having to constantly support the body with it!

[dannybuoy]

[quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1451569516' post='2941606']
The angle of the pickups here mean that when using the low B string a lot sometimes you'll get a bit of a dent in your thumb from anchoring it on the pickup. I can't really complain too much keeping in mind the bas was designed for a pick player.

I also hate pickguards on basses. The NG-2 is the only bass where I can stomach the pickguard. Saying that, I intend to -money permitting- add a third pickup and get rid of the pickguard.


[/quote]

I would get a little triangular wedge made to fit in that gap and give you a thumb rest that's perpendicular to the strings!

[drTStingray]

[quote name='GrammeFriday' timestamp='1451666235' post='2942253']
Sticking to the OP’s question (which was about design flaws in our [i][b]favourite[/b][/i] basses, not about what we consider to be design flaws in basses in general), two immediately spring to mind for me:

1. As others have already noted, pickup placement on the Precision is the wrong way round. It should be nearer the neck under the D and G strings.

Solution:

[url="http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/grammefriday/media/Sandberg%20VM5/photo_zpslla6q7ik.jpg.html"][/url]

Sandberg do ‘reverse P’ placement as standard.


2. The G string on the Stingray 5 is too close to the edge of the fretboard. No, Stingray Fanboys, there is nothing wrong with my technique - it is a design flaw in the bass.

Solution:

[url="http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/grammefriday/media/Sandberg%20VM5/photo_zpslla6q7ik.jpg.html"][/url]

OK, it doesn’t sound exactly like a Ray, but it’s close enough for me, and the G string stays firmly on the fingerboard at all times.
[/quote]

Funnily enough I have a photo of my SR5 showing the strings no closer to the edge of the fretboard than your Sandberg (nice looking bass btw). I can't post the photos unfortunately.

[bakerster135]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1451652693' post='2942087']
You don't need to take the neck off to adjust a heel truss rod. Just loosen the screws off enough to angle the nut out the pocket.
[/quote]

Or just buy a Cruztools truss rod driver, and you won't ever have to take the neck off again (unless you need photos of the stamps, etc)!

Don't get the jazz neck - dive problem...I've had six so far, and never experienced this. Most have been too body - heavy if anything!

My personal bugbear is Spector bridges - no screws to adjust, wobbling around on two legs...Really difficult to set up. I've had two (euro and Kramer-era US) and loved the sound, but this was a major contributer to me selling them!

[chrisanthony1211]

I really dislike intonation adjustments which require you to loosen the string, then loosen a grub screw and move the saddle by hand, it's always fiddly and takes forever, I much prefer just being able to turn a little screw and tune.

Edited January 2, 2016 by chrisanthony1211

[GrammeFriday]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1451692862' post='2942624']
Funnily enough I have a photo of my SR5 showing the strings no closer to the edge of the fretboard than your Sandberg (nice looking bass btw). I can't post the photos unfortunately.
[/quote]

I’m not sure what you are trying to say, here. If you are saying that you have a photo that makes it look like the strings on your SR5 are no closer to the edge of your fretboard than my Sandberg, then I’ve no reason to doubt you. But if you are claiming that your photo proves that the G string on the SR5 (I didn’t complain about the low B ) is no closer to the edge of the fretboard than is the case with other mainstream production basses (of which Sandberg is but one example), then we’re just going to have to agree to disagree.

As I understand it, the issue is to do with the neck on the Ray 5, which has much less of a taper from nut to body joint than other 5 string basses do. Apparently this was a deliberate design decision, and needs to be seen in the context of the times - 5 string basses were still a very new proposition back then, and Music Man were worried that prospective buyers might be put off if the SR5 neck were perceived as too wide. Of course, it turns out that they needn’t have worried - plenty of players (me included) actually prefer a slightly wider fretboard in order to achieve the same tolerances (in terms of distance from the edge of the fingerboard and spacing between strings) as they are used to from their experience of playing 4 string basses. So in that sense - and from my POV only - this counts as a design flaw. I realise that it doesn’t bother a lot of players, but it does bother the hell out of me, and that’s what this thread is supposed to be about!

Actually, it was through Basschat that I first learned about the ‘Stingray 5 G string too close to edge of fretboard’ issue:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/230632-questions-for-ebmm-stingray-5-owners/"]http://basschat.co.u...ngray-5-owners/[/url]

- see in particular the posts by risingson and Dingus. The first thing I thought when I finally got to have a go on one was: ‘Yikes! risingson and Dingus are right - the G really is insanely close to the edge of the fretboard!” I should have listened to their wise words and walked away from it right then, but I was so intoxicated with the glorious sound of the thing that I convinced myself that I would get used to it after a while, so I bought one, fool that I am. There followed a year of tears and tantrums as I tried to get used to it. Sadly, it just irritated me more and more as the weeks and months rolled by, and in the end I had no choice but to flog it, even though I loved everything about it except for that bloody G string.

Edited January 2, 2016 by GrammeFriday

[mr zed]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1451587535' post='2941731']
A personal thing, but I always find the pickup placement to be a deal breaker on Stingrays. Too far back to be comfortable playing finger style!
[/quote]

^^^This^^^

I bought a Stingray and moved it on because I had exactly this issue. I bought a thumb rest but couldn't bring myself to install it as it would have ruined the looks and arguably devalued the bass. The solution was a Stingray HH (or a HS if you're so inclined). Still get the Stingray tone and looks and a whole lot more with the 5 position selector (inc single coils). Fantastic and versatile bass.

[40hz]

[quote name='bakerster135' timestamp='1451704573' post='2942664']


Or just buy a Cruztools truss rod driver, and you won't ever have to take the neck off again (unless you need photos of the stamps, etc)!

Don't get the jazz neck - dive problem...I've had six so far, and never experienced this. Most have been too body - heavy if anything!

My personal bugbear is Spector bridges - no screws to adjust, wobbling around on two legs...Really difficult to set up. I've had two (euro and Kramer-era US) and loved the sound, but this was a major contributer to me selling them!
[/quote]

+1 . I've never experienced even a slight hint of neck dive on the 4 Jazz basses I've owned? All the weights in the body, especially the Geddy Lee I had, which was over 11lbs! I'm definitely also finding the Spector bridge a PITA. Not a great design.

Edited January 2, 2016 by 40hz