Roger2611 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Happy new year my friends! Do we think it is possible for a bass to just be dead? something in the wood just sucking any life out of the tone, I have an early eighties Tokai Jazz that I brought off here some years back, it had been messed about with before I brought it having had the pickups swapped for Fender ones and the tuners swapped again for Fender items.....I was never impressed with the sound of it and it has sat in its case for a couple of years rarely being used....so last year I swapped the pick ups out for a set of overwound Lindy Fralin's and a Fender Stack Knob control plate.....the difference.....nowt, nothing, not a sausage, it is still as dead sounding as ever. Over Christmas I have been working on a cheap Andy McClusky Jazz bass project which consists of a cheap basswood body, generic pick ups, mini pot wiring and a cheap bridge and tuners, I have now finished it and plugged it in and instantly liked the sound....a tighter more compressed almost Precision type tone off the neck pickup (I don't bother with bridge pick ups on Jazzes) I A/B ed the two basses, same amp, same volume etc both basses with new Elites fitted and the cheapy project sounds so much more alive than the Tokai and much more like I think a Jazz should sound, so I am left with the conclusion that the wood used for the Tokai is dead and just saps all the tone out of the bass and irrespective of the parts added it is not going to improve the tone if the wood is dead What do we reckon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyctes Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I assume the bass is bolt-on? My amateurish start would be to remove and refit (not change) all the parts - bridge, neck, nut. It seems more likely than the wood, to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I guess it's a possibility but those early 80s Tokais are known for being high quality instruments so I would be surprised if it was made from crap wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peted Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Sounds to me like it isn't the pickups or tone stack holding back a great sound. Try the bridge, nut or neck pocket as mentioned previously to find out why it won't sing again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Has the difference noticed been at home use volumes or band volumes? I ask as if it`s only been at home use volume, try with the band - may get a different view that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalextra Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Strings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger2611 Posted January 1, 2016 Author Share Posted January 1, 2016 Ok, tried everything, I dismantled the bass completely yesterday, a couple of slightly loose bridge screws,a couple of slightly loose tuner screws and the nut was not glued in so was loose...all rectified, re-assembled the bass and no difference, still dead as a Dodo! The strings are new Elites and you can hear that they are fresh....I know it is not down to strings as the bass has always lacked sparkle irrespective of strings. Gig wise last time I gigged it we had one of our regular bass chat contributors in the audience he is not a fan of Jazzes or Precision's and he said afterwards that the Precision sounded far better / stronger than the Jazz. I have decided I am going to strip the Fralin's out and the stack knob controls, put the Fralin's in the cheapy sell on the stack knob plate and stick the bass out on Ebay (I won't put it out on here as I don't want to sell, what I consider to be, a poor bass on Basschat) shame really as it is a beautiful looking bass in CAR with matching headstock but it does go to prove "beauty is more than skin deep" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Maybe a fault with the pots or caps? Sounds to me like maybe the pickups are are half volume or half power or something and the controls might be restricting the full range of tone? In my opinion, the effect of the wood that a bass is made of has little to do with the end tone. The strings and electrics have more to do with it. If the strings are new, than maybe the electrics are shagged? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I found elites to be the crappiest, deadest sounding strings I've ever used. Tried them a few times, wouldn't use them now if they were given to me for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1451657926' post='2942149'] I found elites to be the crappiest, deadest sounding strings I've ever used. Tried them a few times, wouldn't use them now if they were given to me for nothing. [/quote] I'm not a fan of them these days but as far as the bass go, how does it compare acoustically? I'd start there before I looked at electrics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger2611 Posted January 1, 2016 Author Share Posted January 1, 2016 [quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1451657610' post='2942145'] Maybe a fault with the pots or caps? Sounds to me like maybe the pickups are are half volume or half power or something and the controls might be restricting the full range of tone? In my opinion, the effect of the wood that a bass is made of has little to do with the end tone. The strings and electrics have more to do with it. If the strings are new, than maybe the electrics are shagged? [/quote] sadly no, the original 3 pot plate sounded just as lifeless hence why I swapped the pickups and the controls over, so all wiring is new......maybe the problem is actually the cheapy doesn't really sound like a Jazz and I don't actually like the sound of a Jazz...either way round it's out the door, I have far too many basses to hold onto one I don't enjoy playing. Strings wise I have always loved Elite's and have used them exclusively since the Trace Elliot strings disappeared. As ever, cheers for the input chaps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepbass5 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) I believe you are right to blame the wood, The reason the hand build custom bass luthiers hand pick their timber and ensure it is the best seasoned material is because they understand that this is the fundamental building block of the bass tone just as a tuning fork resonates loudly when placed on a solid surface. The body and neck woods are key to how well the bass will resonate. I also believe that playing the instrument - any instrument wood or brass will help align the molecular structure withing the material just like stroking a nail with a magnet to align its molecules to form a north and south pole. Instruments get better with age and that means exposing them to the range of frequencies they need to propagate a good tone. Every mass production bass line will have good basses and lemons, which is why you should always try as many as possible, you may want a salmon pink bass but the blue or black one in the shop may be the better bass. Edited January 1, 2016 by deepbass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyctes Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Have you tried putting a different neck on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 [quote name='alyctes' timestamp='1451676201' post='2942393'] Have you tried putting a different neck on it? [/quote] And then change the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I also think you're right to suspect the body/neck wood as the source of the dull tone - I believe that a body or neck that resonates in the same range as the notes played will absorb/rob energy from a vibrating string. I think that the tonewood 'thing' is more a matter of subtraction that addition when it comes to particular frequencies. What you're not hearing with your bass is being taken up by the wood itself rather than that energy staying in the string and being sensed by the pickup. It'll never sound good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telebass Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Swap the necks, see if the Tokai neck kills the cheapie or the cheapie neck resuscitates the Tokai body... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cytania Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Is the truss rod OK? Wondering if it's slack but not showing up in the action. Not sure that makes any sense but necks can be weird. 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the boy Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Unfortunately it would appear that it is indeed dead. Please send to me and I will make all the necessary arrangements at no expense to yourself, this being such a sensitive matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyctes Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 [quote name='Telebass' timestamp='1451767890' post='2943325'] Swap the necks, see if the Tokai neck kills the cheapie or the cheapie neck resuscitates the Tokai body... [/quote] This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behlmene Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) My experience has been that if a guitar or bass sounds dead there is little pickup or hardware swapping can do to revive it. The wood is just not resonant and that can't be fixed beyond replacing the body or neck or both. Edited January 3, 2016 by Behlmene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger2611 Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 [quote name='Behlmene' timestamp='1451782644' post='2943459'] My experience has been that if a guitar or bass sounds dead there is little pickup or hardware swapping can do to revive it. The wood is just not resonant and that can't be fixed beyond replacing the body or neck or both. [/quote] It wouldn't be too bad an idea to replace either neck or body if it wasn't a Nitro finished Candy Apple Red bass with matching headstock with original decals as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behlmene Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 [quote name='Roger2611' timestamp='1451815282' post='2943552'] It wouldn't be too bad an idea to replace either neck or body if it wasn't a Nitro finished Candy Apple Red bass with matching headstock with original decals as well! [/quote] Hate it for you ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 [quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1451676649' post='2942398'] And then change the body. [/quote] It's gonna end up like Trigger's sweeping brush! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger2611 Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share Posted January 4, 2016 [quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1451891636' post='2944261'] It's gonna end up like Trigger's sweeping brush! [/quote] It's got about as much tone to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Have you seen the audio test where a guy literally sticks some PuPs/electrics to a block of scrap wood and then attaches a bass neck? He then records some open strings. He then records a well known brand of bass. Listening side by side Its almost impossible to tell the difference. My point is that this video showed that the wood made feck all difference to the sound in this scenario. On the flipside there are loads of players who like flats and sponge under the strings by the bridge to achieve the sound you say you are getting from your bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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