Starting a band without a gigging audience in mind

[RhysP]

[quote name='fatback' timestamp='1451949742' post='2945015']
If you do it putting the music first, the audience will find you anyway.
[/quote]
I've always looked at it as "No matter how sh*t you are the law of averages dictates that someone somewhere will think you're the best thing they've ever heard". That was certainly the case with my old band.

[blue]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1451903404' post='2944347']
You're still creating something. Regardless whether it's a copy.

Doesn't matter how closely you think you're copying the original you'll always be putting your own feel on it.

A better word might be 'making'.
[/quote]

Undercover is on, he gets it. Many of you, have opinion and definitions about creativity I can't agree with. I'll break it down for you;

[size=4][font=Arial]You take a bass line from a song, put it up on it's feet and then bring it to life, but add your own flavor, you don't just go note for note from the original recording, you know the map but you get there your own way.[/font]

[font=Arial]Once you get the line on it's feet and your interacting with other competent musicians other creative things happen. That's the intelligent way to deal with cover bass lines. [/font]

[font=Arial]So you guys can tell these other bass chatters about creativity and and playing covers ain't sh*t, but leave me out. I'm not buying into it. [/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Arial]After 50 years of playing I don't know everything but I know a few things.[/font][/size]


[size=4][font=Arial]Sorry but I had to speak up on this one.[/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Arial]Blue[/font][/size]

Edited January 5, 2016 by blue

[blue]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1451947694' post='2944990']
Yeah, it's like when my grandmother was in a home & they'd all sing Vera Lynn songs & think they were about to be bombed by the Germans.
[/quote]

Not funny, and you missed my point.

Blue

[JoeEvans]

I was chatting the other day to someone about creativity in classical music vs creativity in bands playing original material. In classical music, people can go through a whole career without being expected to play a single note they wrote themselves, and yet they bring a huge amount of creativity to their interpretation of the repertoire. Cover bands are in exactly this situation too.
On the other hand, when you write material for a band, you always draw on all the music you've heard and generally you work within a genre, making music that is really quite close to the other bands in the genre.
It might well be that the actual proportion of creativity against repetition is broadly similar in both cases...

[Truckstop]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1451947694' post='2944990']


Yeah, it's like when my grandmother was in a home & they'd all sing Vera Lynn songs & think they were about to be bombed by the Germans.
[/quote]

There's a gap in the market! Who wants to start a band with me?

We'll play Vera Lynn songs and dress up as air-raid wardens!

[Truckstop]

Also I don't really understand why people are getting their knickers in a twist in this thread.

The OP wants to start a band to play some unconventional covers and is wondering what the reception might be like.

IMO, the reception from a normal pub crowd will be rubbish but they'll probably have lots of fun and kudos by playing songs that they really really like.

Blue; in the UK a lot of people have second jobs. I have three! Playing in a band for £150 a month is one of them. That money is food in my kids mouth and you're insinuating that I'm taking work from other 'real' musicians who do it for a living. That's not cool. My needs are just as valid!

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1451900787' post='2944319']
I think the title of the thread is misleading.

The objective is to gig with good music to an audience. What is different is you're creating a product that you don't know whether there will be a market for.

In a business sense it's suicide, although you're not going to be investing hundreds of pounds in it so it's not a massive risk financially and could be well worth it.

It's the kind of thing you see on the apprentice. "I want you to create a product from scratch and sell it." It's really backwards thinking. Really you should spot a gap, do some market research, see if there is an audience, then sell.


[/quote]an intelligent comment though I disagree a little with your conclusions but gigging to an audience with good music you care about? No reason why that couldn't work.

Over the years in covers bands I've noticed the strangest of songs going down well. It's hard to go wrong with Sex on Fire/Mustang Sally but my current band go down a storm with Hit The Road Jack, the one before with a fairly obscure Matchbox 20 song and you never know what the song of the night will be. It's different every gig. Most bands play some songs with more conviction than others and the audience will pick up on this. Play a song well, with energy and commitment and there's no reason why you can't take an audience with you. There's thousands of brilliant songs no-one covers which could form a great set.

I sometimes think the covers market in the UK is a bit short sighted. The majority of bands seem to stick to a diet of 40 year old 'classic rock' with SOF and Dakota thrown in. That attracts a very limited audience, mainly male and middle aged. Nothing wrong with that other than they are all competing for the same audience so there is little money to be shared around.

On the weekends where I don't gig I like to listen to live music. The trouble is I don't want to hear the 50th band in a row churning out their version of 'classic rock', not because I don't love the music of my own youth but because I'm just looking for something with a little variety. If it's all that is on offer I stay at home.

So I think the OP could find gigs to be rewarding and an audience for their music. Not by ignoring the audience but by taking them with them. I'd love to listen to a band playing music they love well and introducing me to songs I didn't know or hadn't heard recently. If covers bands were more adventurous there might be a brighter future in what we do.

[TimR]

Well you've actually just echoed my conclusion (the bit that you didn't quote).

Edited January 5, 2016 by TimR

[RhysP]

[quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1451980735' post='2945099']
There's a gap in the market! Who wants to start a band with me?

We'll play Vera Lynn songs and dress up as air-raid wardens!
[/quote]

The band will have to be called "The Blackout".

[cheddatom]

My most recent project is a mostly instrumental rock band. It's crazy music with a crazier image. I honestly never thought we'd win over any audiences as it's all so weird, but it's been very successful so far! So, you never know what's going to go down well

I wonder what causes some of these threads to turn into an "originals vs covers" battle? I play in 4 originals bands but I really don't care what anyone else does. As far as I'm concerned, once the song is written, we're all the same, out there playing to audience, trying to win them over

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1451698007' post='2942649']
By the way my 70s style rock & blues band has released 2 CD s of all original material.
[/quote]

I'm really surprised by this! Where do we get the CDs?

[funkgod]

this is a good question, and sums up what i have loved doing for years.
Regards..."knowing it wont have an easy audience to target"
i wonder if the Sex pistols or gong thought this when they started ?
I think if you take time out to create something new you are in breaking boundaries territory,
which is apart of the fantastic evolution of music if you you have faith in what you do and surround your self
with like minded players then the world is your oyster and people will respect that may even credit you to that style
before someone else robs it ( if they see milage in it).
there are a fair few players on here that do just that
look at The Destroyers i would never have looked at them because what category do you put them ?
but i love them,
I have always tried to do this start bands that push it abit, im doing a 12 piece funk band at mo creating something what i think is new... we will see.
So i think go for it, create, evolve, then cut out your piece of pie you will have rightly deserved

[TimR]

I think the difference here is he is stuck somewhere between originals and a covers band.

The songs aren't going to be original, the audience will have heard them before. But they're not going to be the usual covers that people request.

So, he won't be playing to people who aren't expecting to know the tunes like you do when you play originals.

He will be playing to the "Play something we know" crowd.

That's a very hard audience to play 'your favourite' tunes to.

[JTUK]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1451989467' post='2945193']
Well you've actually just echoed my conclusion (the bit that you didn't quote).
[/quote]

I always think the audience can be educated by bands...but not enough of them will or are capable of doing
it which is why we get the same old stuff.

This is my current reoccurring point that pub music/bands don't really help themselves and play too safe.
On the flip side of that, they might not have the ability anyway...

I don't want to hear the same versions by 10 different bands, myself, ...and after a while most punters
will comment on the same thing.
If a band plays the same set for 18 months and plays the same town/venues 5-6 times in that period,
people will notice...and likely stop going.

The easiest thing to do a lot of the times is to mix things up, but bands find this the hardest to do...

Compounded by too many bands playing too many venues with the same stuff...

[JTUK]

Most entertaining band of recent times was an Italian band doing everything in the style of Johnny Cash.
They were so good...but can understand you wouldn't want to see it too often...

[TimR]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1452003127' post='2945373']


I always think the audience can be educated by bands...but not enough of them will or are capable of doing
it which is why we get the same old stuff.

This is my current reoccurring point that pub music/bands don't really help themselves and play too safe.
On the flip side of that, they might not have the ability anyway...

I don't want to hear the same versions by 10 different bands, myself, ...and after a while most punters
will comment on the same thing.
If a band plays the same set for 18 months and plays the same town/venues 5-6 times in that period,
people will notice...and likely stop going.

The easiest thing to do a lot of the times is to mix things up, but bands find this the hardest to do...

Compounded by too many bands playing too many venues with the same stuff...
[/quote]

I'm not sure it isn't a case of the tail wagging the dog.

The requests of songs we get asked to play is very depressing. We get a good reaction to tunes that other bands "don't usually play", but we also get a lot of blank looks. If the audience aren't up and dancing and singing there's little point in trying to educate them. They're there to drink and jump up and down.

Which is why I suggest getting 6-8 tunes working and gig them and see if the audience are responsive. I've played too many gigs where the band 'don't do the usual stuff' and the audience just stand there tapping their feet and looking blank.

[cheddatom]

The weird originals band I mentioned have supported covers bands twice, to crowds of over 100 people, and won them over with our freaky image and heavy instrumental music. These crowds were expecting metal covers, so not your average pub crowd, but I think it does prove that people are open to something different, even if they've come to see something they know.

[lurksalot]

I reckon 9 times out of 10, if your front man had a connect with the crowd , or some really good banter to get them onside, then you have much more room for manoeuvre musically

[funkgod]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1452002384' post='2945363']
I think the difference here is he is stuck somewhere between originals and a covers band.

The songs aren't going to be original, the audience will have heard them before. But they're not going to be the usual covers that people request.

So, he won't be playing to people who aren't expecting to know the tunes like you do when you play originals.

He will be playing to the "Play something we know" crowd.

That's a very hard audience to play 'your favourite' tunes to.
[/quote]
[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1452003225' post='2945376']
Most entertaining band of recent times was an Italian band doing everything in the style of Johnny Cash.
They were so good...but can understand you wouldn't want to see it too often...
[/quote]

Hi tim yea take your point even if it is their version of a song, that to me is in the same ball park as evolution,
some times maybe if your sound is so diverse its prob the best way to do it, just to get people use to hearing your
sound, then slip in originals.

JTUK yep again good to see/hear these bands, but as you say once you have seen it then what?
" in the style of" bands to me are not really ground breaking rather than cashing in on someone elses
hard work,
tho sometimes it works and worth watching,
take "Osaka Monaurail" its original stuff in a jap james brown band, just a clone of everything james brown did
sound, moves, suits, style, looks,everything.... would he have got the work he is getting without that assocation ?
but his songs are good and i like it and yep payed to watch it, even tho i know its JB.

all in all to me if you doing a cover or an original in your own style no matter how diverse you think it is some will like it some will hate it
this is all a part of creating YOUR audience, but you will never know unless you try.
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1QFLzBan30"]https://www.youtube....h?v=R1QFLzBan30[/url]

Edited January 5, 2016 by funkgod

[JTUK]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1452006268' post='2945409']
I'm not sure it isn't a case of the tail wagging the dog.

The requests of songs we get asked to play is very depressing. We get a good reaction to tunes that other bands "don't usually play", but we also get a lot of blank looks. If the audience aren't up and dancing and singing there's little point in trying to educate them. They're there to drink and jump up and down.

Which is why I suggest getting 6-8 tunes working and gig them and see if the audience are responsive. I've played too many gigs where the band 'don't do the usual stuff' and the audience just stand there tapping their feet and looking blank.
[/quote]

Currently we are doing Alan Toussaint, Bobby Bland and Meters/Neville type tracks and they work because the singer can work an audience...he is some keyboard player as well
but even though the band is pretty (very) capable you have to pick your gigs for this to work.

Pretty soon, we'll have to decide if the gig can go to a more ticket orientated gig.... so pubs that have door charges but then you come up against
people being used to 'free' bands.... ie, the punter doesn't pay directly for them in the subsidised pub market.

[blue]

[quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1451981352' post='2945108']
Also I don't really understand why people are getting their knickers in a twist in this thread.

The OP wants to start a band to play some unconventional covers and is wondering what the reception might be like.

IMO, the reception from a normal pub crowd will be rubbish but they'll probably have lots of fun and kudos by playing songs that they really really like.

Blue; in the UK a lot of people have second jobs. I have three! Playing in a band for £150 a month is one of them. That money is food in my kids mouth and you're insinuating that I'm taking work from other 'real' musicians who do it for a living. That's not cool. My needs are just as valid!
[/quote]

I think your confusing me with someone else. My position has always been, I"m not in competition with other bands and no bands are taking business from us.

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='funkgod' timestamp='1452010741' post='2945497']



Hi tim yea take your point even if it is their version of a song, that to me is in the same ball park as evolution,
some times maybe if your sound is so diverse its prob the best way to do it, just to get people use to hearing your
sound, then slip in originals.

JTUK yep again good to see/hear these bands, but as you say once you have seen it then what?
" in the style of" bands to me are not really ground breaking rather than cashing in on someone elses
hard work,
tho sometimes it works and worth watching,
take "Osaka Monaurail" its original stuff in a jap james brown band, just a clone of everything james brown did
sound, moves, suits, style, looks,everything.... would he have got the work he is getting without that assocation ?
but his songs are good and i like it and yep payed to watch it, even tho i know its JB.

all in all to me if you doing a cover or an original in your own style no matter how diverse you think it is some will like it some will hate it
this is all a part of creating YOUR audience, but you will never know unless you try.
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1QFLzBan30"]https://www.youtube....h?v=R1QFLzBan30[/url]
[/quote]

That clip is crazy, if anything it tells me more about how far reaching James Brown's music was and still is.

Blue

[Si600]

We have this discussion when it comes to choosing songs. On our obvious list we've got American Idiot and Pretty Vacant, on the not so obvious list we have Upstarts and Broken Hearts and Los Angeles is Burning.

We've not had chance to try it out on a audience yet, I think we good enough to get by but the others aren't so sure, plus we've only got ten songs :-)

[blue]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1451993305' post='2945243']
My most recent project is a mostly instrumental rock band. It's crazy music with a crazier image. I honestly never thought we'd win over any audiences as it's all so weird, but it's been very successful so far! So, you never know what's going to go down well

I wonder what causes some of these threads to turn into an "originals vs covers" battle? I play in 4 originals bands but I really don't care what anyone else does. As far as I'm concerned, once the song is written, we're all the same, out there playing to audience, trying to win them over



I'm really surprised by this! Where do we get the CDs?
[/quote]

I know we sell them at gigs, they were recorded before I was with the band.

They might be on iTunes I'll find out.

Blue

[TimR]

[quote name='Si600' timestamp='1452030520' post='2945787']
We have this discussion when it comes to choosing songs. On our obvious list we've got American Idiot and Pretty Vacant, on the not so obvious list we have Upstarts and Broken Hearts and Los Angeles is Burning.

We've not had chance to try it out on a audience yet, I think we good enough to get by but the others aren't so sure, plus we've only got ten songs :-)
[/quote]

Yes. The band has to be convincing or the audience won't buy it. At JTUK says, if the front man can sell it you're on to a winner.

[jazzyvee]

I would love to do that and have been trying to find like minded musicians for a good few years to do something like this. Unfortunately for me, musicians for the genre I want to cover are really only interested in doing session gigs so joining a band taking a long term view like "rehearsing the band till its absolutely right" is not usually on their list of priorities. They see music as a job that has to pay.
Whilst I understand and respect their stance I sometimes wonder why some pro musicians aren't able to separate their music activities into those which are to earn a living and those for enjoyment or a hobby that does not necessarily need to make money.

For example, if my day job was a freelance programmer writing software for corporate clients, but as a hobby I decided to learn to write apps for mobile phones and tablets. Both are writing software but I only expect to get paid for what I do for a living and would not expect to get paid for the software I write as part of my "hobby" even if there is a cost outlay to do it. However If I became competent at mobile phone app development then i may indeed get paid but that would be a bonus not a driver.

I hope that makes sense.